Metalic gold ink problem

[m_alatorre]

Hi everyone:

I'm in a SOMRZ with conv. damps and having troulbe printing a solid with 80% screens inside it with metalic gold(P-871). The design has other screens(10% and 50%) and they open allright but not the 80%-screen circles! If i go with more ink so the solid look intense, the screens will get stuffed and just look like one big solid. if i lower ink they open but the solid look horrible. I've tried a lot of water and ink and it looks ok but not very professional so what i did is print two times with a low ink film. I got a fair result. Is there a secret to metal ink printing? I've handled other metal ink jobs with decent results, but this combination is a chalenge for me and, since i've seen nice jobs out there with level of difficulty, i know i'm missing something. Help!!!

 

[5150pressman]

Change the screen value to 65-70%.

Also, if you have an open unit to use. Print the screens alone on that unit and the solid on another.

Gold/silver tends to be on the low tack side and when you run it up it'll plug up.

 

[kammannbro]

Some of are jobs have a solid gold the main trick is feed your plate not your rollers and keep your water at a min like 30-35 gold is like cyan it hates water and the really sharp solid gold always print a 75-80% yellow under your gold that will save your gold ink hope this helped you out

 

[m_alatorre]

thank you 5150pressman and kammannbro,

I now have two questions:
1 How do i feed my plate insted of rollers(with little water i guess) and,
2 Regarding little water usage, if i start printing with a screen not completely open(because of little water) should i expect it to open during run while getting right water balance? or should i start with i little bit more water and wait for water excess to reduce during run?
(with CMYK inks i usually use the first method, for it helps me archieve water/ink balance faster without density dropping in the molleton press)

Thanks again

 

[kammannbro]

Sorry about that maybe I should reword that, what I meant to feed your plate not your rollers was to only use enough gold ink for your plate coverage, just because if you dump to much of that gold down your train it emulsifies real badly do to the metallic in the ink

Yes start off with your waters low like 35-40 and clime up if needed

you should try the pro yellow trick your gold will look sharp

 

[Tahir khan]

Try to use 2% Tint medium in gold , use water ( first boild then cool it) when making design compensate screen through dot gain more than normal

 

[lildaddy50]

anytime you have a solid with screens you are going to have plugging problems with the screen. if you want to run a nice dark solid. The best way to Quote/run the job is with 2 units. One plate for the screens and one for the solid. You can just lay the screen under the entire solid if you choose. This will help to cover hickies and make for a better solid.

Lildaddy (30 yrs. exp.)

ps. always run the solid first and the screen second. You will always produce a better solid if you bump on another blanket after the solid!

 

[pressman57]

You might look at your ink. I used to have much more crap with metallics until we switched ink companies. What you describe sounds like the metallics we had to use right after the switch to soy-based inks happened.

 

[RichardK]

anytime you have a solid with screens you are going to have plugging problems with the screen. if you want to run a nice dark solid. The best way to Quote/run the job is with 2 units. One plate for the screens and one for the solid. You can just lay the screen under the entire solid if you choose. This will help to cover hickies and make for a better solid.

Lildaddy (30 yrs. exp.)

ps. always run the solid first and the screen second. You will always produce a better solid if you bump on another blanket after the solid!

Absolutely agree lildaddy50. Although we prefer to run two solids - one with tints one without. We have always run the tint plate second (one less unit to go through makes for a more open tint especially on metallics).

 

[lildaddy50]

ok, listen up you guys. Most shops run a solid and a screen. I have never really liked that method because it will make your solid darker than the pms book and the screen does not do that great of a job to cover the hickys. If you lighten up your solid a little to match the pms book then you have a lighter film on the blanket which will be tackier and actually pull more hickys.

Here is a secret that not even the ink co. knows about. If you run 2 solids at full strength, you will be way too dark. The trick is to cut the pms ink in both units by adding tint base. Then run them both at full strength. The solids one at a time will be lighter in color and impossible to match your pms book. But when you lay both of the light solids together you will match pefectly.

The formula is,

Add 5.5 oz tint base to 16oz pms ink (in both units)

write this down! Hicky free solid everytime.

Lildaddy

 

[m_alatorre]

Thanks to everyone!

This are several options try. All of them sound good so i'll wait 'till next metalic job and put to work one (or maybe two of them) and post results.

Moe

 

[Richard Hummel]

By tint do you mean varnish? I have my pressmen add varnish. Helps control water pickup and makes the gold lay much smoother. Richard

 

[RichardK]

I meant tints in the context of halftones. eg if there are halftones within the job it's a good idea to run a plate that carries both solid and halftone, and a bump plate with solid only.

This way you don't have to lay down a large amount of ink that may well start to 'fill-in' the halftone/tinted area of the plate.

The solid only plate then ensures a hickey-free smooth solid.

I would sequence the solid only plate first then the plate with tints.

Hope that makes sense

 

[marker]

i assume by tint base you mean binding varnish. they also used to call it ab dick compound. i never had to run metallic screens and solids seperate on my sorkz. but i did have to dry trap a duo-tone blk and 872 .

 

[turbotom1052]

when running a pms gold ink i usually take 1 step up in the pms book... if the job calls for 871 i run 872 or if the job calls for 873 i run 874 . i akso like to put a decent amount of water repellant varnish or binding varnish to give the ink more tack.

 

[pressman57]

No, by tint base he means transparent white, used in mixing colors. It's a good idea.

 

[marker]

binding varnish seems to work better than trans white, as it is stiffer so you don`t have to apply as much and risk making your ink pigment too washed out. trans white really should only be used for mixing and binding varnish for "binding" the ink.

 

[pressman57]

marker, when doing a double-bump solid you actually want the color to be weaker so you can run more ink and eliminate hickies. Binding varnish, on the other hand, will make the ink much stickier, pulling every bit of garbage out of the sheet.

 

[marker]

the whole point of binding varnish added to the ink is to eliminate the need to double hit. formulating your ink to the job goes a long way for quality of print and post press handling.

 

[Heidelbergpta]

Turn you IPA right up to maximum and make sure the ink and rollers are as cold as possible (start of production) Hope this helps