feedback from KBA Genius owners

[Jarle]

I am hoping to get some feedback from owners of the genuis machine, as i am looking inot maybe buying one.

We are a small printshop running indigo machine. As we are running many jobs that are "too big" for this machine as well outsourcing many even bigger jobs, we are looking for a machine to keep these jobs inhouse.

the genius seems like the perfect machine but i am getting some mixed feedback...

at the moment i have an option for a 2005 model NON-UV (we are not planning to print plastics). my local kba representative tells me this machine is no longer in production and getting spare parts could be a problem. the seller tells me the only difference between the non-UV and the UV-version is the corona and the drying unit and parts form the UV-version will fit right in the non-UV. Can anyone confirm this?

other questions are:

- is the machine as easy to operate as it may seem from the "advertising"?
- is the machine "stable" - does it require much service?
- are parts hard to come by, even for the UV-version (this has been stated also)?
- are there any drawbacks to the non-UV 2005 model that is not an issue with the newer UV-versions?

thanks in advance for any info.
Jarle

 

[Meny]

The list to considder

50000 GTO 52 users are standing in line to answer the same question on GTO
40000 SM 52 users are waiting side by side to answer
6000 Komori L-420 users are on hold for the same question
20000 Ryobi printers will love to answer

and may be , just may be 2 KBA printers will reply..... as not so meny sold.....

If your local KBA dealer is telling you he can't get you parts , and this is what he makes a living from..... you can trust him - he is a good man to tell you in advance.

swim with the river , not the other way as you can't win....
unless you are willing to pay high for the mistakes you make

 

[Jarle]

there is only one other genius machine in my country so my kba rep does not have much experience with this machine. he seems more interested in selling me a uv-version... but as you say, a conventional setup might be the way to go, still good if i get some feedback from people with experience from the genius. i spoke to the printer in norway woh has installed the genius and he is VERY excited about the machine (but this is the UV-version).

 

[Meny]

happy for how long ?

How long has he got the press and did he buy it new ?
Is he realy happy with it or would he like to have more of the kind so he can get better service ?

some times you need to ask the right questions to get the right answers.

KBA has been in the market for meny years , and this model is available for some years now.
So why do they sell so meny conventional presses and yet so little DI presses ?
So why do KBA sell so little ? don't printers like good ideas comming from a big German company ? or is it that they do not believe the technology offered ?
And why is the price as used so low ? is it due to the fact that the presses are so good that printers would like to share the good with others ? and will they buy another DI press after ?
Or is the low price due to being not happy at all and willing to give it away and loose a lot of money and just get rid of the pain.....?

I am only asking questions - you can answer them as you wish.
I am talking from 25 years of service to this industry and have known the DI presses from the stage they where found only on paper & dreams.

It was a grate idea until the fast plate changers came to market
Just like the cross bow was a grate wepon until the canon came to life.....

will you buy a cross bow ???

The world has changed , and NOT in the DI direction

Good luck , what ever you do
Meny

 

[Jarle]

i wouldnt expect him to convince me to get a machine in order for him to get better service, but you never know : )

the genius is not a DI-machine. it is conventional all the way except for being waterless and all revolving around a central impression cylinder, in theory
eliminating register problems.

depending on who i was fighting and where, yes, i might consider a crossbow over a canon : )

 

[Meny]

sorry . i messed up a few threads together

As for a conventional press
you can het a very nice package of a 4 color 52 cm Heidelberg in mint condition + a 2005 Kodak Lotem 400 CTP for under 100000 Euro and after a week's time you are up and running - this is the core of the industry , can always be sold , has service & parts and you can pick an operator from the street to run them..... as long as it is the right street

Good luck , what ever you do :=-)...and keep warm in the comming winter
Menybor@yahoo.com

 

[Jarle]

can you get me a SM52 + creo lotem for under 100.000 euros? i am interested : )
however - if i end up going conventional, then i might consider a bigger press (74) as we do have alot of outsourcing for concert posters. feel free to email me an offer (hollerud@trykk24.no)

 

[Meny]

Yes

YES i can get you an excellent Heidelberg 52 4 color press with Autoplate + a good CTP (Lotem) under 100000 Euro.

As for going bigger....

I think it is wise to go one step at a time.
If you have work for a full shift on a 52 press , it is like half a shift for a 74.....

But i assume you do not have a full shift for now , and building it can take a year or two , so i would recommend that you start easy and small and in 2 years time re-consider going up in size.
You will be able to get the price you pay for the equipment back 1:1
This will not be possible if you buy a KBA..... never get what you paid for ...if you can even sell it at all....

Good luck
#
Meny
Menybor@yahoo.com

 

[OkiTech]

Jarle hi, I think Meny makes 100% sense... #1 - you can't go wrong with Hidelberg, #2 you can't go wrong with SM52. If you think about going bigger size press in near future, get a bigger CTP to start so you don't have to change anything in your pre-press as you change press. With Genius being so rare, you may experience some downtime due to lack of parts on other hand if you'd buy UV version and specialize in printing on non-porous substrates, being one out none of very few specialty printers you could make your customers wait when necessary and they would, because there is really nowhere to go, with regular litho print, I am sure their options would much wider... If you want to go DI, why not Presstek 34 or 52 DI? In any case, Meny is right - an automated Heidelberg GTO can outdance any DI there is and should you change you mind about having it at all or decide to go bigger press, takers will line-up in the long line, Genius oxi, I am not sure about, I would imagine taking Genius UV is safer because it is sort of unique - small foot print, UV printing, can handle thick media for press this size - this is what this press was made to be, there are not too many UV printers that can take on the smaller orders of products suitable for this print size. Now KBA has taken off UV curing system and sell it for less (It's like Genius UV without it's Mojo) in that case I'd take PressTek 52 DI. Oh by the way, did you know that you can't print metallics on Genius? Simple Gold or Silver Ink will instantly kill the Anilox rollers ($25000 part).

 

[Jarle]

thank you for the info about the metallics issue on the genius - very useful information, this is the kind of feedback i am looking for : )