ImagePress C1 or Xerox 260

[a2282_200]

can anyone give me some advice regarding these machines,
we are not sure which is best for us, we are a quick printing and copy centre
i have an C3220 and was looking to either replace it with 5180 or Xerox 260,
can't decide, canon is much cheaper but Xerox seems to have a better print quality.
mostly used for printing heavy stocks, Tabs, and high speed quality black and whites,

your reply is appreciated

thanks
A2282

 

[xpquickprint]

Message says you are thinking of a canon 5180; title says ImagePress C1 -- I suppose you are still considering both of those canons, so I'll give you my 4 cents.

The imagepress C1 has the nicest output and capabilities, but can you take the big speed hit? If someone were upgrading from a CLC 1180 they wouldn't find the C1 slow, but after 32 ppm it might be a strain to adapt your workflow to such a slower speed despite the better density, much nicer finish, and capabilities.

Does the 5180 bring any jitter fixes to the 3220? I hear a lot about people using 3220's and 3200's but not nearly as many comments from people running 5180's. I wonder why not? Even if they only took a good machine and made it faster with no other drawbacks, I would have expected we would be hearing a lot more people having 5180s installed by now... The 3220 isn't particularly strong for black and white -- the 5180 is supposed to have better density but I haven't seen this for my own eyes.

How does operating cost compare? I think the C1 has the highest click rates more comparable to a CLC than an imagerunner or xerox.

 

[midloglen]

xerox vs canon

In my office we have both the Xerox 242 and the ImagePress C1. They are performing two different jobs.

The C1 is purely a production machine with strict controls on who prints and is cailbrated daily. It does a great job and my creative staff loves the output. It is expensive but creates great output.

The Xerox is in a more business (Account Mgmt and New Business) area. These machines have performed great. The prints are very good and the unit seems easier to use than the Canon. Another selling point for us was that the trays are very ajustible. With many people using this device and the fact that it rarely gets calibrated make it a good choice for these users.

Whatever you buy will blow away your current 3320 which we tested and hated (banding).

I hope this helps
Glen

 

[Jeff]

Whatever you buy will blow away your current 3320 which we tested and hated (banding).

Curious - when you say banding are you referring to what I call jitter on our 3200/3220 (bands running in the short 11" or 12" direction) which I think are due to the small plastic gears and no "flywheel" effect to give the intertia to keep it running smoothly, or banding running in the long 17" or 18" direction which for us is due to drum life? (e.g. the black is band free for the first 25% of its life, ok for the second 25%, but then the last 50% is more difficult to use due to image faults...)

At first the single drum design of the C1 (like the old carasol design of our first laser printer or the clc 11xx series) seemed like it would be much too slow, but I wonder if having a much stronger single drum for our type of use would have less drum issues for us due to not "burning in the drum" with the same image being printed over and over and over on it and stressing the same areas so much more? Or would it be even worse for economy since some colors like yellow for us can currently run to 250% of yeild since we don't see the image faults in the yellow drum, whereas with one shared drum it would need to be replaced when the first image fault developed which would be shown in the more obvious black...

 

[Jeff]

One other thought - we were told that the imagePress C1 would require more hands-on maintenance from a trained tech vs. our 3200/3220 which are more modular and have been pretty rock-steady in terms of uptime so far. So your location, travel time to get a tech on site, and quality of service may be more critical if you go with an imagePress; don't know if it's any issue for you (if we were 30 miles closer to our techs it wouldn't be an issue for us)

 

[midloglen]

Banding

When I speak of banding (don't know if that is the correct term) I mean that when we printed a high res pdf that had a very gradual change from red to almost black there were distinct lines that could be seen. It very well could have been a problem with the machine but it was check by service and reported to be running correctly.

 

[Jeff]

I do not believe we get that kind of banding at all on either our 3200 with fiery C1 rip or our 3220 with fiery C2 rip printing from the windows xp print drivers for each rip.
(attached is a print I had run on the imagePress C1 that we also ran on our IRC3220 -- our machine shows what I call "jitter" running from top to bottom which is random print to print and comes and goes, and also the drums here were around 80% yeild and you can see faults in the 17" direction from right to left, but these go away when new drums are inserted so I don't think this is the banding you refer to either. Or am I missing the forrest for the trees and just not seeing the banding you speak of?)

I would love to have an imagepress for the noticably greater resolution, density, and to get rid of "jitter" (not sure if this is the correct term) in especially medium gray areas that comes and goes with our IR3200s which seems to be a irregularity in the movement. But the higher price and much slower speed make the imagepress C1 a steep price for me. Wish I could afford its big brother, but not yet.

Did I also read that the imagepress can adjust density across the drum -- if so that could really extend drum life and lower operating costs. Seems like one of those things that should have been done a long time ago.

 

[a2282_200]

Thanks a lot guys.
most probably will go with Imagepress C1 + IR 5180 (quality + speed) versus Xerox which seems an excellent machine but i did not like their sales team approach and flip flop on promises. / + lack of knowledge. (it kind of scared me of service quality in future)
both Canon together will be about a Xerox 260 (price wise).

cheers

 

[Rick]

I am currently looking at a new Canon imagepress C1 for use in my retail/small commercial print and copy shop. We currently run an 1180 and 1120 with a total of about 15,000 per month. Hoping to increase volume through better quality of the C1 and willing to buy a second one if affordable alternative for more speed and capacity.
Does anyone have a current field report on the C1 as far as reliability over time and realistic monthly volumes? I am also curious about current market pricing for purchase and servicing as the first offer from my dealer is usually out of line.
any info on the C1 woud be much appreciated.
rick