c1 for short runs vs color copier

[markm]

We're currently using Phaser 7750 laser printers to print full bleed color inserts, 2 sides printed. About 6,000 impressions a month. We are spending a fortune on toner.

Any general ideas on whether an imagePress or canon color copier would make sense for us? At just 300 impressions or so per day, speed isn't as important as image quality.

Price? We have been in touch with Canon reps but so far have no pricing info, and would like to hear from the community anyway. I would dearly love to know what we should expect to pay for an imagePress c1, no finisher, no copier, just basic paper handling and a reasonable controller.

Thanks

 

[xpquickprint]

In the range of $0.11 to $0.16 I believe for an Imagepress C1+ for full service, supplies consumables and durables.

Canon reps with canon business solutions, or?

 

[Jeff]

Also compare quality vs. price per print with a docucolor with service contract. I like the imagepress C1 quality, but for us the economics favored the docucolor and for what we print, the quality is close. Put the prints next to the balance sheet while looking at them, and the docucolor print starts to look even better.

 

[markm]

1) Yes, so far the only salespeople we've talked to are from Canon Business Services, although there are alternatives in the area.

Do you have an opinion whether it's better to go directly through Canon, or a third party vendor? This will be our first purchase of a piece of equipment in this class.

2) I'm currently comparing against a Docucolor 242, and the image quality is very good. It might be the way we go.

Also, what about maintenance? Even though it's included in the contract, I'd be concerned if we had to expect too many visits from techs to the keep the machines up and running.

Thanks for all of your responses so far. Very helpful. Mark

 

[Jeff]

We leased our canon machines through IKON -- one thing I really like is the personalized service IKON offered where we knew our tech well and even had a cell phone number in case of emergency (in addition to the overall system.)

We're at 80,000 11x17 and 12x18 prints on our new Docucolor 242 and haven't required service yet so I don't have experience yet with Xerox service to comment.

 

[1fastmini]

If you are looking to purchase a new Canon machine IKON is a option. Last year they were purchase by Ricoh and are no longer a authorized dealer for Canon USA. By going through Canon Business Solutions you are dealing with a Canon USA company, they only service and support Canon equipment.

Hope that helps.

 

[xpquickprint]

I think you mean is "not" now, right?

Is canon business solutions expanding it's territory a bit now that Ikon isn't selling canon machines any longer?

 

[1fastmini]

Canon business solutions is opening more than 20 office in the USA to keep its customer base. Its a good time to be shopping as Canon is offering sweet promos.

 

[Jeff]

Can canon business solutions offer a sub 10 cent click on a c1 (for 11x17)?

 

[1fastmini]

Our service pricing (which includes Toner, parts, labor) varies by print volume and commitment. Current service agreements on a C1 with no minimum monthly commitment is at $0.085 per impression (a single click is any size paper (LTR, 11x 17, 12 x 18, 13 x 19)) If you commit to a monthly volume the click rate drops even further.

 

[markm]

canon business services / Boston alternatives

1fastmini, what else can you share about the "sweet promos" Canon is offering? I have been frustrated by the lack of transparency in this market. It's worse, much worse, than buying a car.

There is an alternative, not Ikon, to canon business services in our area (Boston). Any thoughts on why one or the other would preferable either in initial pricing, click pricing, or service down the road?

Thanks very much for all the replies on this thread. It's all been very helpful.

Mark

 

[1fastmini]

Mark, I can see where you can be frustrated. Surprisingly this industry is very competitive and are margins are minute. The money is in service. Pricing is difficult, especially on a imagePRESS, there are many variables: Rip software, (impose, compose) Micro press, size of rip the user will need (this is a big one), then there's the option for a paper deck, and finishing options . . . The list goes on and on.

The Boston CBS opened this year, I know Canon likes to hire from inside however I don't know about your specific rep. I know in Orlando we pride ourselves for being the informant to the customer. We strive to be looked as a consultant rather than just a sales rep. That way the customer is fully aware of his / hers options and knows where to look at for pitfalls, and scams when doing business with another company. I know we are not the cheapest (God only knows how many deals I've lost to a Konica, Toshiba, or Oce) however its Canon's quality and reliability that keeps us having a 93% customer return rate. They are workhorses! They stand the test of time.

I can't talk about the promos for legality reasons (I love my job and I want to keep it) & cause they change every Qrt. However I can tell you that they are unprecedented. Canon will do what ever it takes to win your business.

Send me a private message with your specs, finishing options and other specific questions, and I will try to do my best to answer them.

Jose

 

[markm]

thanks

Thanks 1fastmini,

I'll send more info offline. Just wanted to say here that I have no problem with my local CBS rep (she's better than my Xerox rep) it's just that the process overall is difficult to get a handle on.

markm

 

[Jeff]

Thanks for the reply 1fastmini -- that's roughly half the click rate I was looking at through a competitor of yours a year ago when I decided the C1 would never be an option for me. I'm glad to see canon is in the running afterall.

 

[1fastmini]

Jeff, If you don't mind me asking, how much is your click rate? Word on the street Canon has the highest click rate on the market. What to see what comp is offering?

 

[barwapk]

Jeff, If you don't mind me asking, how much is your click rate? Word on the street Canon has the highest click rate on the market. What to see what comp is offering?

1fastmini -I'm from Poland (Europe) and I have ImagePress C1, my click rate is $0,136 per impresion (13x19). Canon said to me that this is a very good price..

 

[Quebecite]

For your volume, I am in a case with a company Im consulting that has a phaser 7760 at 3000-4000 per months. Their coverage for each page were kind of big and by looking at Canon studies and ours we could save around 15-20% per month.

All small printer cost a lot in inks, whatever the company you choose. This is only a 14 pages per minute device. However, lower than 500 print per day everything seems fine now. You could have big stock paper, 13 X 19.

Finally, don't forget 2 things: 1-The c1+ have a fifth color that is a clear toner (kind of spot varnish) so in one pass you could have your 4 color and the clear.
2-No oil based toner, so this is a gloss optimizayion, if your paper is matte, the finish will be matte, if the paper is gloss your finish is gloss so it is you that choose not the printer.

However, the 242 from xerox is a really great device. Those 2 device, c1+ and 242 for my point of view are not in the same market target but both in my advice are the best in their specific market

The 242 fit perfectly for those who needs speed, productivity and a good quality. So somethign around 10000 and 30000 volume per month for a 242. EX: Copy center, walk in customer

The c1+ fit perfectly for marketing company, advertising and graphic shop for top proofing. Ideal volume around 3000-7000 MAX because of the speed.

Here you go, for your particular case I would say the c1+ but in a lot of case , the 242 will be the best.

IMPORTANT = Ricoh bought IKON so I don't think they will sell or repair the Canon device anymore

Thanks

Quebecite

 

[markm]

thanks

Quebecite,

Thanks. We did end up going with the C1+. It's been up and running just 2 days now. It is slow, but that's not a problem for us because of our low volume. The quality is excellent, and the paper handling (with the AA-1 Side Paper Deck) is terrific. I plan on posting a short review after I'm more familiar with it.

Mark