Wohlenberg 115 MCS-2 TV electronics issue

[Industec]

The board allready cleaned!

 

[Industec]

This is the point now...
Can someone tell me, what are the values for this parameters???

Thaks in advance!

 

[CHOCK]

I believed that you are Not clean the MOBO.
You need to clean very Deep with Alcohol Isoprophiloc to.100%.

2) after that you must look :a) dry joint Solder b) colder joint Solder.

3) you must Reset the Cpu, attached how to do it.

4) look for Decoupling capacitor if Is Ok!! Very important!!!

Blessing

 

[CHOCK]

Reset the CPU Attached is there the schematic, that i did design.

However test the 1) power supply for the CPU 2) Clock for the CPU in MHZ. otherwise, will NOT work.

Test this too:
A) Reseating Boards and components:
Edge connectors are a common souorce of problems. Power down the system and remove the PC boards. Examine the edge connector
for contamination and clean with contacts cleaner contacts. Reseat any loose components such as scoketed ICs) . Reseat the
boards and power up.

B) Power supply checks:
Check the power supply for missing voltages and voltages out of spec. A digital multimieter DMM can be necessary, as
voltage specifications are quite tight: logic supplies for example: must be within + 0.7% percent of 5Vdc. All the
multiple supplies , must be checked.

Blessing

 

[Industec]

I believed that you are Not clean the MOBO.
You need to clean very Deep with Alcohol Isoprophiloc to.100%.

2) after that you must look :a) dry joint Solder b) colder joint Solder.

3) you must Reset the Cpu, attached how to do it.

4) look for Decoupling capacitor if Is Ok!! Very important!!!

Blessing

1st Really appreciate your help!

As you can see I totally cleaned the affected area of both sides of the board with isopropyl alcohol and 4 hours of patience (cleaning, resoldering some doubt points and apply the clear coat).
After that, I mount the board on the machine and it starts verry quikly, (like used to be some years ago) but then I note that the language have changed to German.
I changed the language and then accessed the Service Data menu, that, as you can see in the picture, have some strange values with some symbols betwen the numbers. I didnt know the values of this 7 parameters, so I deleted them all and applied some "random" values to try working with the cutter.
The cutter was now working on maual mode, so I made a litle program to try the programing mode, and it do 2 perfect cuts, but on the third cut it stops a litle out of the mesure I have programed.
I thinked it could be the value on the "Fast>Slow" parameter was too short, so I entered on Service Data menu again to change it, but when I tried to delete the value, the Software dont respond anymore...
I switch off the cutter during the night, but nothing hapen, in this moment I can use the cutter in manual mode, but cant enter in program mode or even switch on the air in the table (It's like the keyboard was disconected).

What do you mean with "clean the MOBO"???
How can I find the CPU??? The board have many Motorola microprocessors, many chips of 16kRAM, a siemens conter and some chips that seems to be UV Eproms with a black stripe on it.
And how about the capacitors? It could be an tantalon capacitor? I dont see any other kind of capacitors in the main board.
About Power supply, it give the board 2 different voltages, one of 12vdc and other of 6vdc.

Sorry for the long text and all of thouse questions...
And thank you so mutch for your suport!

 

[CHOCK]

Good job sir:

Mobo =Motherboard , is the electronic board where the CPU o central processor unit or microprocessor that is in the Mother board.

CPU, is big IC SQUARE, you will easy, must be INTEL, or search in Internet engine Google, or Yahoo.

Normally, they are attached to the CPU for to avoid Noise, and EMI, and can be tantalum, depend of the designer engineer.

About power supply you must see: schematic diagram electrical/electronic.what are power supply are +12 or +6 or +5Vdc, The tolerance however must be in: 0.7% up or down

Blessing

 

[Industec]

Sorry for this kind of questions!
I dont think this cutter have a board with a ordinary shape CPU, but I will try to find it and take some more photos to post were, and measure more precisely the voltages on the board.

I have a doubt about the file you attached, is in small resolution so I cant see what is about, but I think its from another machine. Can you confirm it???

Thanks Again for your help!

 

[CHOCK]

Sorry o did a mistake with Screenshots, howei the best way, if y are looking as i did indicate un Internet Engine, like Google, Yahoo, AND others

Let me know.

Blessing

 

[milivia]

Greetings colleagues.
My client has a Wohlemberg MCS-2 TV 115 guillotine.
The problem is that the machine does not start. When I switch on Q1 a beep is heard, I turn the S6 key, pressing the green button (HS1) , nothing happens, only the screen turns on and a blinking cursor appears.
I have made several verifications, following the recommendations of similar cases raised in this group, and the results that I have obtained so far are:
1) In Q1 and Q3 there is 380V voltage between the three phases. Q4 and Q4 have 0V AC.
2) I have measured at the output of T1 and there is also voltage.
3) If I press HS1 (green power button), I get 26VDC at the following points: X201 (5), X200 (10), also at X205 (20), however, at point X205 (21) 0VDC, it seams like the K48 relay does not get 26VDC to activate the starting process. I don't know if the problem could come from relay K215 on the CPU board.
4) Checking the CPU board (86-Woha5040538-adt12.165240) I have detected a broken diode D14 (BAT 43), as well as its 2k resistor (I have already changed the resistor for a new 2k one, I just need to change the diode, but I don't have a similar one).
5) When measuring the voltage of the CPU battery (NI-MH 3.6V) is 1.25V.
6) There is 26VDC coming out from X40(2), which activate relay K22.
7) In the main relay control board, I have these LEDs ON: H2L, H18, H19, H29, H30 & H109.

Now I don't know how to proceed, I need your help please. And besides, I do not have the technical service manual, in case someone can send it to me by email ing.anynsue@gmail.com I would appreciate it.
I share with you some captured images.
Thank you.

 

[CHOCK]

Hi sir;

I believe that you are measuring wrong;

1) points: X201 (5), X200 (10) , according with his Voltage 380Vca, you must measure 380Vca!! , test the Fuses F12(3 in total).

2) if everything is o.k , three phases winding of main transforme supply the relay PCB as all switches above of rectifier for +24Vdc in terminals 209+ and -210 Vdc as a Fuse F4 previously on the power pack and in the control cabinet cabinet , the Vdc must be 24 ' 26Vdc

3) in the secondary winding supply ; 17, 19, 21 Vca

4) the secondary transformer T2 is connected via contactor KO(245) !!!!!!! , and generate the output, in case any Faulty the output of transformer is switch OFF. Please SEE carefully according with his schematic electrical diagrams,

 

[milivia]

Thank you very much for your quick respons.
As you're saying, I have +24-26VDC between terminals 209 & 210, but it doesn't reach terminal X200(3) when I press the starting button S1(HS1). The only way I get KO pull in, and T2 energised is when I press S2 (HS2). And I bealieve that is because during the normal starting process, KO should be energised by relay K48, witch is controled by K215.
It seams like everything turns around the relay k215 and/or some other components of the main cpu board.

Regards!

 

[CHOCK]

Hi sir;

Please review the contactors KO +K22, when you turn ON the machine the contacts N/O From KO closed., check the Circuit Breaker Reset Q3.

Look carefully the follow in PCB relays.

H2L LED +24VDC

HKO LED KO main contactor pull in

HK1 LED K1 main contactor pull in

HK2 LED K2 delta contactor for main motor

HK3 LED k3 star contactor for main contactor.

In others word if the contactors KO+K22 they are NOT pull in, the machine will NOT run, test the Relay PCB, for Dry+Colder joint SOLDER, see the schematic very well.

 

[milivia]

Hi all,

Thank you so much for your help.
Well, when I turn on the machine, only K22 pull in. KO does nothing. I've checked the control circuit, it seams to me like the problem is in the main borad, but I'm not sure.
Is it safe to inject +24V at point X205 (21)?, assuming I force k22 pull in.

 

[CHOCK]

Hi Sir

NOT safe to inject +24 Vdc, in order to that , are various technical reasons.

1) you must test the terminal after the Bridge Rectifier for +24Vdc: X2-209 ..........................X2-210 =+24Vdc
X1-209..............................X1-210= +24Vdc

2) If you have +24Vdc, in that terminals, test the Fuse F4 coming after the terminals mentioned before!!

3) However IF you do not Have +24Vdc in the terminals mentioned before, the Fuse or the Bridge Rectifier is Faulty!!,

4) look for a) loose wires b) corroded terminals 3) bad contacts 4) dry +colders joint solders!!

 

[milivia]

Hello all,
I cheked all these points and I have +26V in them : X2 209 - 210; X1 209- 210. I also get +26V at difrent points of the start control line and even get relay K0 pull in when I press switch S2 (knife change state). That is good news, I think!
The problem I'm facing now is as follow:
1) When I press swuitch S1 (start push buttom), K0 does not pull in. I've done some measurment in the "start control line" and I've notice that I lose +26VDC between point X20(22) - X20(20), which are conected by the relay K215 (highlighter in blue in the ilustration). So my question is what could be bloquing that relay K215 from switching on? Could it be a safety swich/sensor?
2) After noticing that I lose +26VDC at the point of relay k215 I try to bypass it by conecting a jumper between X20(22) - X20(20), see supplied image (highlighter in red). I that configuration if I try to start the machine KO, K1 and K3 enter in a pull in - drop out bucle (on-off, on-off,...) until I stop it. Could sombody explain what could be wrong on this bypass please, I'm lost?

Email:ing.anynsue@gmail.com; whatsapp : +240 555 822 250

Thank you so much for the support.
Regards!

 

[Patricio Romero]

I have a problem with my Wohlemberg MSC-2 guillotine.
Everything works fine except that it does not measure (unsure of translation?). They have already reviewed everything and apparently the card that issues the measurement has a problem. I would like to know where on the card they have to check and fix.

 

[andy martin]

Hi. Does the machine have a rack of I/O boards next to the main board. These will have input( green) leds and red(output) leds.check when you run the back gauge past 500mm you should get a green led flash. This is the reference point for calibration. Without this input you will not get a read out on the screen. Only a red dot. This input is generated by a micro switch under the table at 500mm from the front of the blade. It is in the middle actuated by the backgauge passing . Let me know

 

[CHOCK]

Hi sir;

See how is work and check

The CPU controL all machine frunctlons. when the CPU activate some element of the machine then the check switches and contactors
the CPU shows a closed function c i r c l e

Manual movenent of backgauge
1. The operator switches the cross lever, The cross lever
can be checked on a red LED on a I / o - p o r t .

2. The CPU receives the informatlon from the cross lever.

3)The PCU checks if all conditions for a Movement of the
BACKGAUGE are Fulfilled


For instance:

backgauge has not reached a limit si,ritch
backgauge brake is free etc.

If all conditions are f u f l f i l l e d , the CPU gives the information
to activate the backgauge contactors.

The backgauge contactors switch and give a feed-back (auxiliary
contactor) vi a I / 0 - p o r t to CPU.

Red LEDs show that the contactors are switched-on.

 

[Patricio Romero]

If indeed we have already verified that when activating the push-button on the table no LED lights up, we also verify that everything is well connected and that there is continuity to the PA.

 

[CHOCK]

Hi sir;

1) Please test the limit switch if defective, for bad contacts !!

2) if is o.k, see if there are Voltage at contacts switch?? clean it, and see if there loose cables in the limit switch

3) see if the electronic card PCU if o.k