True 2 Color Press Suggestions

[The Dirty Bird Press]

Hey folks, I've trolled these forums for years, thought I would join to ask a question.

I'm in the market for a good used true 2 color press. I would like to know what would be a good recommendation that would have a lower learning curve (yes, I know the can of worms I'm opening here). I've ran several small duplicators with t-heads and I'm looking for some better quality and I'm sick of running two color on a one color and fighting registration.

My typical sheet size is cut sheets up to 12x18 with full bleed. I really don't run anything bigger. Currently my darkroom is setup for old school conventional where I do it all by hand.

Most of my jobs run length are small 1000 to 10,000.

Thanks for any recommendations and help on the matter.

 

[ziggy33]

Ryobi 3302 it's a twin tower true two color and will run anything up to 12 by 18, they run about 10K to 30K depending on whistles and bells and year, the Itek 3985 is the same thing runs at the lower end of the dollar mark abdick 9985 is same thing and is at about the mid range dollar all good machines tho! Just all depends on your budget they are pretty simple to run? I do about the same amount of work load your talkin on my 96 ABDick 9985

 

[dmblair]

The 3302 is a great press. Lot's of good qualities about it. Do you have any printers in your area that have one that you could talk to them about? That would be a great way to find out about them. One issue you might run into is the sheet size (being you run a 12x18 sheet now). Max paper size on a 3302 is just a shade under 17.75. Max image area is 13x 17.25. That is the only thing that sucks about these presses. Trying to run a full bleed 11x17 with crops and color bars is not fun. You've got a 1/4" to play with and that doesn't leave you with much. If you can reduce the size of your press sheet then you'd be good to go. Other than that, these presses will run forever and take care of you. It will make you some money!

 

[The Dirty Bird Press]

Thanks guys, yes my father in law runs a 3302 about an hour away. He swears by it, I've been seriously considering it especially since he knows how to run it, to help me get up and rolling. @dmblair, do you have any experience with repairs on this particular press or does your employer hire someone to maintain the press? I ask as currently I maintain my own press, if I get in a pickle I have a few experienced locals that come to the rescue.

@ziggy33, what kind of dampening system do you use on the 9985? Does it operate with a t-head?

Do either of you know if the press can run 6-3/4 size envelopes? That is the smallest envelope that I run in shop and whatever way I go I would really like to have one press that can do everything I need. I'm trying to be conservative with my space. Also do you know if the 3302 can run with "laser" plates that people are making in their copiers? I have had varied success with them on my hamada.

Thanks, D

 

[FFR428]

Yep the 3302 can run a 6 3/4 no problem. I have run A2's and one smaller I forget the name but "nickel" size or something like that. I have used both the the clip on or screw on envelope sideguide attachment from the Hamada to run envelopes on the Ryobi. They have 5 register table belts/tapes. I push 2 tapes to the side and add the Hamada envelope sideguide and run 3 belts or tapes. The one I have is from a newer Hamada and screws onto the jogger shaft. Same shaft ID as the Ryobi and works perfect. If not you need to drop tension on the belts and slip 2 over the side jogger. Not a big deal either but can stretch the belts after time. If you have a early 600/660 style clip on env sideguide from your Hamada just use one of those black clips (binder clips I think they are called) on the jogger shaft next to the clip on to hold it secure so the jogger and env's don't push it away.

 

[ziggy33]

No t head twin tower I have crestline dampners great press won't let ya down

 

[The Dirty Bird Press]

@Ziggy33 how often do you have to service your crestlines? I've heard that they require high maintenance compared to a kompac. Thanks

 

[The Dirty Bird Press]

@dmblair: to run the color bars, could I just run them on the back cylinder and be ok? Currently I've not been running any just to save space and keep paper cost down. I run the job and line it up on the negative, do press check every 20 to 50 sheets to keep it in line. Should I be running them? Thanks D

 

[ziggy33]

I service mine myself. Maybe changing rollers once a year in it so not to much maintence on em I always thought it was more work to have a kompac system crestlines are pretty cut and dry when it comes to adjusting and replacing rollers

 

[dmblair]

As far as repairs, I have plenty of experience. I'm a factory trained technician on these presses. If you treat the press right it will return the favor. It never fails, the shops I go in and ask for an oil can (20 minutes later they come back and say they can't find one) are the shops I frequent the most. It's amazing what a little lubrication will do to a machine to prolong it's life. Every spot on the press that needs oil that the centralized oiler doesn't get is mark with red paint. Keep those oiled and all the grease fittings greased and you will do fine.

As far as dampeners, Kompacs are the way to go. They have two rollers (sometimes with a 3rd oscillator). A form and metering roller. One way I look at it...when it's time to buy rollers, you only have to buy one...the form. The metering roller will usually last through quite a few form roller changes. Crestline systems for these presses range from 4 - 6 roller systems. There are obviously more rollers to replace and more pressures to maintain. From a pressmans point of view, six one way half a dozen the other as far as how easy they are to run. Your going to get the same quality from both systems. Either of these 2 is better than the molleton system or "H" dampener in my opinion.

I'm not sure what you meant by "run the color bars on the back cylinder"????? You need to have the color bars on the sheet. It all depends on what you are printing though. If you are doing a lot of 4-color work then it would help to have the bars on the sheet so you can read them with a densitometer. There are pressman though that can run without a desitometer and it looks better than pressmen that have one. If you doing 2 color work only then it won't be necessary to have color bars.

 

[FFR428]

Kompacs are a no brainer water unit. Other than new side seals every few months drop the bottle in and go. If you use the remote bottle/hose assy those can be a pia when they get older and the washers inside swell and stop flowing water. The one thing with them is the inward nip. You can't reverse the press with the water form engaged or it'll backflow water out of the unit. Kompacs have been refined over the years and the newer units (with the oscilator on the form) are the best yet. Older units with the oscilator on the meter roller can be fussy sometimes. Heck even the stock molletons run well. The real old 2 roller Kompacs (form and meter) were very prone to strange ink buildups that would make a funky pattern on a larger solid logo/type sometimes. Adding the oscilator to the meter helped but changing it to the form cured it.

 

[The Dirty Bird Press]

Thanks guys, I'm going to look at a 3302 this weekend (hopefully) is there anything in particular I should watch for other than the usual? Does any one have any experience moving one?

 

[plotter]

i moved mine with narrow pallet trucks under the delivery end, but be very careful as they are top heavy and can topple over if your not very careful.

 

[dmblair]

i moved mine with narrow pallet trucks under the delivery end, but be very careful as they are top heavy and can topple over if your not very careful.

Yes, that and whatever you do, don't lift the press from the feeder. Make sure your jacks are under one of the 2 units on the press. Take a look under there. You will see a cross member on both ends that work well for lifting purposes.

 

[whatnoziti]

Make sure when you set it up it is level. I moved mine across the shop once and started running it without leveling it correctly and wore down the drive gears very quickly. Still works fine but it is loud and does have some chatter in the printing in worst case scenarios.

 

[dmblair]

Make sure when you set it up it is level. I moved mine across the shop once and started running it without leveling it correctly and wore down the drive gears very quickly. Still works fine but it is loud and does have some chatter in the printing in worst case scenarios.

Very good point whatnoziti, when you level it, use the ink founatain roller for your ops/nops level check, and pull the covers off and use the side frame between the first and second unit for your delivery/feeder level check. If you can't get it level enough with the amount of travel you have in the leveling feet, use a piece of metal to achieve the proper level. You don't want more than 10mm in distance between the bed frame and top of the bottom nut on the leveling foot. If you go over that, you will reduce the integrity of the bolt and the press will not hold level very long.