Stahl Folder Ti52 - Error 18

Discussion in 'Folders' started by toshirohissatomi, Feb 10, 2020.

  1. toshirohissatomi

    toshirohissatomi Member

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    Hi collegues,
    I work with PCB repair mainly Heidelberg Postpress, the Ti52 after some years normally presents the ERROR 18 and the owner needs to change the main board, SGM-3, I and other colleagues from other companies have been investigating the cause of this problem but nobody had success, we checked all components and was not find any damaged component.
    I'd like to know if someone had information about this hardware error... at the same I am ready to help collegues with issues about Postpress PCB repair..
     
    DANIELE MONTANA likes this.
  2. CHOCK

    CHOCK Senior Member

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    Hi sir;

    Normally in Stahl TI52 Present error:

    In the Services menu, press the F2 function button. The Mainten./Error log menu appears.

    Open the error Log.

    Let me know, if this fix it
     
  3. toshirohissatomi

    toshirohissatomi Member

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    Hi Chock,

    Probably you are referring to new version similar to MCT... this error occurs in old version, that one with 7 segments display
     
  4. CHOCK

    CHOCK Senior Member

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    Blessing
    Details for Display with Seven segments display is attached
     

    Attached Files:

  5. toshirohissatomi

    toshirohissatomi Member

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    Hi Chock,

    Sorry for the late answer, I was not at the Lab, I was in the costumer testing a board. Tomorrow I will send a copy of technical description about the problem which explains about the missing 24V in relay K1 on the board.

    Regards

    Toshiro
     
  6. toshirohissatomi

    toshirohissatomi Member

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    Hi Chock,

    The error message in the technical description is:
    upload_2020-2-11_23-18-50.png
    According to the description is caused by signal check-back from K2, it means missing 24V or wrong configuration in service mode.
    The configuration is ok and the missing 24V is not because the relay is not actuated, there is a kind of watchdog circuit that monitors other circuits from the board and in case of failure will not allow the release of 24V, will not active the relay K2. The challenge is to discover which components in the board would be responsible for this failure.

    upload_2020-2-11_23-33-51.png

    Regards

    Toshiro
     

    Attached Files:

  7. CHOCK

    CHOCK Senior Member

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    ok Toshiro , where is the schematic appearing the coil for K2??
    Since you must know, some device like limit switch, or button can be interrupted the
    coil for K2, and by that reason does Not goes ON.
     
  8. toshirohissatomi

    toshirohissatomi Member

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    Unfortunately, there is no schematic for the board, this relay is on the board, but when I in Heidelberg I saw this error many times and the machine only come back to run when you change the board, I and other colleagues from other companies that work with PCB repair still didn't find the cause in the board, I don't believe is damaged component, I guess can be project error because after some years all boards presents this error and is necessary to replace the board

    regards

    Toshiro
     
  9. adam burgess

    adam burgess New Member

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    Hi I am ex Heidelberg, they cannot be repaired due to the problem part is obsolete. (k2 is a myth)I can use these for other issues so I am willing to buy any old/ damaged ones with error 18 for £80 english plus postage thanks.
    I do have both sgm2 and sgm 3 if anyone needs them but these are new and expensive

    Thanks

    Adam
     
  10. toshirohissatomi

    toshirohissatomi Member

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    Hi Adam I am ExHeidelberg too, I worked as a field service engineer and now I work repairing PCB from Graphic machines, this kind of error until today nobody as able to solve. I have other colleagues that work with PCB repair and they also didn't solve this problem, I follow the whole circuit and didn't find damaged component, seems to be some project error, similar to any value close to the limit in good conditions and after some years these values are changing and the board doesn't work anymore, but if you test all components will not find anyone damaged.

    regards,

    Toshiro
     
  11. DANIELE MONTANA

    DANIELE MONTANA New Member

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    Good evening, I had the same problem on the motherboard of the heidelberg ti36 machine, sgm-3 DCT 500 control panel and I tell you my experience hoping to be useful to you. After several tests and attempts to solve the problem, even by calling the parent company, I got into my head to want to solve the problem and with my pride I was able to solve it by studying the functioning of the logic well. Then I intervened on the RP2 POSITIONED ON THE SGM-3 CARD I HAVE ALL THE CONTACTS WITH LIQUID SPRAY FOR CONTACTS. Even today I no longer see the annoying error.


    P35: Port 1 Outputs P35 indicates Port 1 output status Table 5 Safety settings # Function Operation Key Combin. Variable Displayed
    P60 Drive start key delay Adjustable with 0 - 13 secs.
    P61 K2 release time Adjustable mit RP2 Adjuster- K2 Delayed release (sec) (large display) +
    P60: Drive Start Delay period (only when A02=0) Entering the Drive Start Delay period for Station 1 (Settings: 0 to 13.0 sec.) ensures that the paper runs smoothly after starting if there is any paper still inside the machine. (Station 1: approx. 0.6 sec.)
    P61: Display of delayed release for the K2 guard (only when A02=0) Adjuster for setting the K2 delayed release (Measuring time = 0 to 10 sec.). Adjust with the RP2 poti on the SGM-3 board. Default setting = approx. 2.5 sec.
     
  12. Brad Donnell

    Brad Donnell New Member

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    I have an older Ti55 with error 18. I assume the cause would be the same. How can I order a board and is it something I can replace myself. I don't know where you are located. I'm in NC.
     
  13. CHOCK

    CHOCK Senior Member

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    Hi sir;

    You can order to Heidelberg USA; Parts@heidelberg.com +
    Anthony Scharf + Office 1-800-437-7388
    Parts Analyst
     
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  14. Mehanka Abortmaher

    Mehanka Abortmaher Senior Member

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    ERROR_18 FAST DIAGNOSIS AND REPAIR
    We found a problem in the control buttons on the receiving conveyor, they are the most loaded mechanically and clogged with dust.
    Purging, cleaning of contacts with disassembly of buttons solve the problem, for a short time)))
    Diagnosed the problem by disconnecting the acceptance control cable and setting the standard plug connector.
    For an emergency start of the movement of the belts, the relay was forcibly switched on with a cable tie.
    But you have to control it from the main console, which is not very convenient.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2022
  15. CHOCK

    CHOCK Senior Member

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    You must proceed according with his schematic diagrams electrical.

    In that way you must sure, that machine will react, as programmed by the factory.

    Please do it.
     
  16. Mehanka Abortmaher

    Mehanka Abortmaher Senior Member

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    Mister @CHOCK
    I appeared on this forum thanks to the Stahlfolder Ti52.
    It was this piece of equipment that broke in the middle of 350,000 runs. Yes, the same err_18 which "CAN'T FIND OFFICIAL SERVICE ENGINEER of Heidelberg".
    Above, I described the troubleshooting, emergency operation and explained the reason in detail.
    Exactly, about the buttons! The buttons need to be changed, especially the outer pressure part, the contact groups are very reliable.

    P.S. I declare the rights to the censorship curse "a piece of equipment" ©
     
  17. CHOCK

    CHOCK Senior Member

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    do this ; Release the emergency stop palm button on the aggregate. that mean error 18
    Now, you must look the emergency button in Internet, if heidelberg does NOT have

    I can supply, but need ; 1) part number 2) serial model 3) exactly model 4) delivery country for calculate freight 5) his email for to send you the quotation.
     
  18. Mehanka Abortmaher

    Mehanka Abortmaher Senior Member

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    @CHOCK
    Thank you for your concern! We found the buttons, learned how to work in emergency mode. First, they began to take a loan, look for a fee, an electronics repair specialist ...
    The emergency stop was quickly fixed, then the other three buttons failed, with their own mistakes. The feast of intellect was long and productive)))
    Now we can carry out very serious repairs within an hour or two.

    P. S. The Emergency Stop button is electrically connected to the machine stop button. And here many (including us) are trapped! The ES is in good condition, the cables are intact, the relays have been checked... The Stahlfolder is as immovable as in museum Madame Tussauds.
     
  19. CHOCK

    CHOCK Senior Member

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    Good, that you Carry out , x serious
    Expert.
    Let me know ASAP, any questions

    Blessings
     

  20. Mehanka Abortmaher

    Mehanka Abortmaher Senior Member

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    Thank you! You guide people towards success :)
     

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