Offset press and die cutter pricing

Hello,

I would like to do a comparison of the cost benefits of a few different offset presses, sheeters, and die cutters for packaging printing. I am interested in the new Heidelberg XL 145 and 162, 6/1 color with 2 coating units. Does anybody here have any experience with these presses? What kind of price range would these presses fall into?

My company currently has a 44" Komori (6/1 & 2 coaters) from around 1998. I am not a pressman, but have worked on the press before in a limited capacity. I think we get it running up to about 9,000-10,000 iph, but net only an average of about 7,500 iph, depending on the board, due to washups and such. It generally takes about 2-3 hours to make ready a job for production, with about 350-600 make ready sheets.

I am also interested in the new Komori presses, as long as they are at least 44". However, I noticed that the maximum thickness of the substrate through the press is much less on a Komori than it is on a Heidelberg. This is most likely not a major problem though because 99% of our current business is within the Komori's thickness restrictions. It does limit future business to an extent though potentially.

Anyway, I am looking for some general advice as I am fairly new to the printing industry and also had some specific questions regarding the Heidelberg presses that I mentioned above, as well as any Komori presses that you would recommend based on my guidelines.

Questions I have for each off-set press:
-What is the approximate price range for new?
-How fast will it typically run packaging stock in the real world? (iph)
-How long will it take to make ready a 5 color job?
-How many sheets of make ready does it typically require for packaging jobs?
-What kind of running waste percentage would you expect?

Also, I am interested in an auto-blanking die cutter. We currently run older Bobst die cutters. What die cutters would you recommend for 44" width and for the VLF (XL 145 and 162) widths? How much do these die cutters cost approximately? How fast will it run and how long will it take to make ready?

Also, what are the best sheeters out there right now? What should one look for in a high-quality sheeter?

I'm sure I will have more questions in the future here, but thank you in advance for your helpful insights!

Gavin

 

Wow , world war 3 on the way

Gavin
I hope i do not start world war 3 here but the facts are:

1. Komori go as standard up to 1 mil , and you can request on a new press 1.2 mil
2. Komori had a 50" press in the past - today it is 44" only (future ???? god knows)
3. For this stock , heidelberg used to have a more tollerant feeder , but the new komori feeder is as good now
4. for board ? i would vote Komori 100%
5. make ready - if i rull off the actual washing of ink ducts (man power issue) , the Komori systems support much faster make ready and you can get from one job to running the next (same inks) at under 5 min' , and in packaging - about 10-12 min'. BUT , you must use the tools you get on press to get that and work by the book.
I can get in to detail and talk this over but not over the web - don't like typing
As for your current Komori , again , rulling out the ink duct washup's as this is something i can not answer (one person ? 3 person ?) , on a 1998 Lithrone you could run board at 11000 in real life , havibg net on the floor (long runs) 9500-10000 sheets in excellent quality subject to the use of non stop.
running at 9000 and getting out 7000 sounds bad.

As for make ready on your 1998 press - If you work with CIP files and your press is callibrated (with or without KHS) , you could be on to your color (working in collaboration with your prepress dep') at no more then 20 min'.

If your operators are open minded and your prepress coooperative , with a very very small invetment you can get alot more out of your press (the old Komori)

Any more questions ? happy to help but save me the typing...
Meny

 

2 - 3 hours to make ready on a 1998 press? Methinks their something wrong

 

We are a steel rule die maker for packaging. Bobst really has no equal. There are several knock-offs out there that are ok but if you are looking for speed of set up and just all around solid design, go for the newest Bobst blanker you can afford. Set up is a wide open question that depends on your operator and complexity of the diecut. Some simple 2-6 up diecuts can be accomplished in an hour. I have seen experienced operators spend up to 6 hours on a 30 up flip top cigarette carton. If you are looking at small quantities and want a quicker set up, look at the Baysek diecutter. It is quite unique in its capabilities. It cuts against a soft anvil, so set up is fast and blanks, but it does not allow for matrix... It soundsd as if you are only producing folding carton and no corrugated?

 

Meny,
Thank you for the information! I do have more questions though. I do not see a place to send a private message on the forums though? If this is not possible, please post let me know how to contact you.

RycckG - thanks for the info on die cutters. We are looking into used Bobst auto-blanking die cutters now. They seem fairly rare though.

 

You should be able to find one here...

http://www.boxmachine.com/

 

hello Gavin

You can contact me on menybor@yahoo.com

best regards

 

Hi Gavin
well i don't know what you do about buying machines ,speaking of die cutters Bobst is number one we have 4 of them ,but about offset press i will go for HD,not only from my experience (i have worked more on Roland and HD 102CD ),but also close to us there is another printing factory who use Lithrone S40 (two machines) have been there many times and i can say you always have some problems with electronics,preparing time is ok for both Komori and HD depends of pressman,speed we run HD 15000 sph,great quality ,they usually go 10000-12000 but sometimes it depends of what you print and thickens of paper and again pressman.So there is lot to say both machines are ok but i prefer HD.