LindaB
New Member
- Joined
- 2008
- Posts
- 3
- Geo
- Florida, USA
CPP 500, 550 or 650
We have all three Ikon-branded boxes at our shops.
It's an okay machine. Not a great one.
First problem is that the KM box is touchy. PM's need to be performed more often than Ikon likes to do them. Parts wear out faster than Ikon wants to replace them. No one at Ikon in our region seems to be well-trained on this machine, particularly with the CREO RIP that we use. Trust me, the CREO RIP is the only thing making this machine produce sellable prints.
Learn to clean the corona wires yourself. Calibrate every morning if you are in the print-for-pay business. Colors will be different overnight if you turn the machine off at the end of the day. Heat, humidity and PMS cause the colors to shift.
Get used to having to make adjustments for side A to side B. Do not rely on the duplexer to do this precisely.
Get used to some paper stocks not running. Nothing heavier than 12 point kromekote and you certainly cannot duplex cover stock.
Oh, and don't try to run stock cut down from parent sheets as short grain. It WILL JAM.
Thinking of getting the high-capacity drawer? Good luck! The first one on our machine had a humidity controller that drove us nuts! It stopped every couple of hundred sheets for 10 minutes at a time! The side guides were warped and didn't travel on the bottom rails evenly, making the sheets buckle as the elevator lifted toward the top of the drawer. The second HCD (or tray 4) is doing the same thing, although to a lesser degree.
We have a service contract with Ikon for our four print shops in this area, with multiple machines. If I could go with another service vendor, I sure would.
We have all three Ikon-branded boxes at our shops.
It's an okay machine. Not a great one.
First problem is that the KM box is touchy. PM's need to be performed more often than Ikon likes to do them. Parts wear out faster than Ikon wants to replace them. No one at Ikon in our region seems to be well-trained on this machine, particularly with the CREO RIP that we use. Trust me, the CREO RIP is the only thing making this machine produce sellable prints.
Learn to clean the corona wires yourself. Calibrate every morning if you are in the print-for-pay business. Colors will be different overnight if you turn the machine off at the end of the day. Heat, humidity and PMS cause the colors to shift.
Get used to having to make adjustments for side A to side B. Do not rely on the duplexer to do this precisely.
Get used to some paper stocks not running. Nothing heavier than 12 point kromekote and you certainly cannot duplex cover stock.
Oh, and don't try to run stock cut down from parent sheets as short grain. It WILL JAM.
Thinking of getting the high-capacity drawer? Good luck! The first one on our machine had a humidity controller that drove us nuts! It stopped every couple of hundred sheets for 10 minutes at a time! The side guides were warped and didn't travel on the bottom rails evenly, making the sheets buckle as the elevator lifted toward the top of the drawer. The second HCD (or tray 4) is doing the same thing, although to a lesser degree.
We have a service contract with Ikon for our four print shops in this area, with multiple machines. If I could go with another service vendor, I sure would.
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RickAB
New Member
- Joined
- 2008
- Posts
- 2
Thank you so much for sharing your experience to help me out.
Do you find the 650 or 550 noticeably better than the 500?
And how many prints on average do you get between service calls?
I had hoped the fact that Ikon chose to co-brand this konika minolta machine meant they found it very economical to service since that's their business (unlike the manufacturer who makes more money the more durables the machine goes through) The sub 10-cent click charge offered on these konika minolta cpps grabs my attention in this tight economy.
Thanks again so much for your time.
Do you find the 650 or 550 noticeably better than the 500?
And how many prints on average do you get between service calls?
I had hoped the fact that Ikon chose to co-brand this konika minolta machine meant they found it very economical to service since that's their business (unlike the manufacturer who makes more money the more durables the machine goes through) The sub 10-cent click charge offered on these konika minolta cpps grabs my attention in this tight economy.
Thanks again so much for your time.
LindaB
New Member
- Joined
- 2008
- Posts
- 3
- Geo
- Florida, USA
Ikon CPP 650
Rick --
We have three 500s and one 650. The 650 produces a much prettier print.
Prints from the 650 look more like they are printed on press than the 500.
We get between 50,000 and 70,000 clicks between PMs. PMs usually include drums, coronas, developers and basic vacuum cleaning.
I think you'll be happier with the 650 as opposed to the 500.
You just have to stay on top of the needed service for it. In other words, watch your jobs when they are running. Streaks and overtoning can show up at any time, and they require a service call.
We have some employees who will queue up a job, enter a quantity and walk away from it. Then they are surprised when the job has gone bad and try to blame the machine or the technician. There's a lot less waste if you get up and check the run every hundred sheets or so. If you see a problem has come up, immediately put in that service call.
We do use the 650 for print-for-pay production. On average, we run around 100,000-120,000 prints per month. We run heavy stock, and we run two sided, heavy coverage sheets. We've been doggin' it out for over a year now and it does make us money.
But it's not a press, and not as tough or sturdy. There are sensitive electronics and environmental factors that can affect the quality of the prints it makes. Keep an eye on it!
Rick --
We have three 500s and one 650. The 650 produces a much prettier print.
Prints from the 650 look more like they are printed on press than the 500.
We get between 50,000 and 70,000 clicks between PMs. PMs usually include drums, coronas, developers and basic vacuum cleaning.
I think you'll be happier with the 650 as opposed to the 500.
You just have to stay on top of the needed service for it. In other words, watch your jobs when they are running. Streaks and overtoning can show up at any time, and they require a service call.
We have some employees who will queue up a job, enter a quantity and walk away from it. Then they are surprised when the job has gone bad and try to blame the machine or the technician. There's a lot less waste if you get up and check the run every hundred sheets or so. If you see a problem has come up, immediately put in that service call.
We do use the 650 for print-for-pay production. On average, we run around 100,000-120,000 prints per month. We run heavy stock, and we run two sided, heavy coverage sheets. We've been doggin' it out for over a year now and it does make us money.
But it's not a press, and not as tough or sturdy. There are sensitive electronics and environmental factors that can affect the quality of the prints it makes. Keep an eye on it!
JayBird
New Member
- Joined
- 2008
- Posts
- 1
- Geo
- New Hampshire
IKON vs. Konica
We run both a Konica 6500 and the IKON 650, same machines. I can't stress enough what crooks the IKON people have been. Our IKON machine was delivered in December and configured to click 1 time period, regardless of size, same as our Konica. Sometime in April their service department changed it to double click on 12x18's, unlike our Konica. They never told us they were doing this and have given no reason. Our agreement clearly states 1 click per image. Therefore a 12x18 image or an 8.5x11 image were charged one click until this change came into play. I was just billed for 360,000 clicks instead of the 180,000 I was expecting and budgeting. I am witholding payment and can't wait to meet them in court over this. Has anyone else had such a dispute?
We run both a Konica 6500 and the IKON 650, same machines. I can't stress enough what crooks the IKON people have been. Our IKON machine was delivered in December and configured to click 1 time period, regardless of size, same as our Konica. Sometime in April their service department changed it to double click on 12x18's, unlike our Konica. They never told us they were doing this and have given no reason. Our agreement clearly states 1 click per image. Therefore a 12x18 image or an 8.5x11 image were charged one click until this change came into play. I was just billed for 360,000 clicks instead of the 180,000 I was expecting and budgeting. I am witholding payment and can't wait to meet them in court over this. Has anyone else had such a dispute?
LindaB
New Member
- Joined
- 2008
- Posts
- 3
- Geo
- Florida, USA
Ikon billing issues
We have nothing but problems with Ikon billing, and this has been going on for years. My boss pays the amount he agreed to --- he withholds excess charges. They are only being paid the signed contract amount. Be careful though ---- if you don't talk to them regularly and keep up a dialogue with the people in charge, they may cut you off from service.
What we do with click charges is run jobs 2-up or 4-up; since we are charged 1 click for 11 x 17 or for 8.5 x 11, we step and repeat jobs (where possible) and hijack Ikon for all we're worth!
We have nothing but problems with Ikon billing, and this has been going on for years. My boss pays the amount he agreed to --- he withholds excess charges. They are only being paid the signed contract amount. Be careful though ---- if you don't talk to them regularly and keep up a dialogue with the people in charge, they may cut you off from service.
What we do with click charges is run jobs 2-up or 4-up; since we are charged 1 click for 11 x 17 or for 8.5 x 11, we step and repeat jobs (where possible) and hijack Ikon for all we're worth!
sellin_print
New Member
- Joined
- 2008
- Posts
- 2
- Geo
- Washington, USA
Boy! do I have an opinion on the c500!
We have an Ikon branded (CPP500), Konica Minolta C500 in our print for pay business and it is a complete pile of junk! We have had continuous problems to the point that we are now buying a new Xerox 260 despite that we don't really have the sales numbers to justify it yet. We just can't go on with the intermittant functioning and lousy print quality of the C500. The techs tell us that changing paper sizes is the cause of the fuser lines on our 12x18's or 13x19's but what the hell do they want us to do? I mean we ARE a print shop and not everyone wants the same size prints! I was considering moving up to the 6500 but I saw some examples of the printing at a show recently and when I held it up to the light just right guess what I saw? That's right, fuser lines running down the sides of the sheets! And on the show examples even! Then when I looked at another colorful piece, it showed the telltale mottling effect that I am so use to seeing in my large fields of color. We have techs in our shop nearly every day and it doesn't look good at all to my customers. I would think long and hard before buying a Konica product..check Xerox out in a side-by-side test of the same print. Yeah, they cost a bit more but they print something that you can hand to your customer with confidence and not that gut-wretching feeling as you wait for them to notice the lines and the crappy fields of color. The way I became turned on to Xerox was because of all the downtime my C500 gave me, I was forced to outsource to my nearby competitor and he has a little 242 but man does it print pretty pictures! Sorry for the rambling but I've been thru hell with this machine and if my experience can help someone else avoid a mistake, I'll ramble a little!
Good Luck
We have an Ikon branded (CPP500), Konica Minolta C500 in our print for pay business and it is a complete pile of junk! We have had continuous problems to the point that we are now buying a new Xerox 260 despite that we don't really have the sales numbers to justify it yet. We just can't go on with the intermittant functioning and lousy print quality of the C500. The techs tell us that changing paper sizes is the cause of the fuser lines on our 12x18's or 13x19's but what the hell do they want us to do? I mean we ARE a print shop and not everyone wants the same size prints! I was considering moving up to the 6500 but I saw some examples of the printing at a show recently and when I held it up to the light just right guess what I saw? That's right, fuser lines running down the sides of the sheets! And on the show examples even! Then when I looked at another colorful piece, it showed the telltale mottling effect that I am so use to seeing in my large fields of color. We have techs in our shop nearly every day and it doesn't look good at all to my customers. I would think long and hard before buying a Konica product..check Xerox out in a side-by-side test of the same print. Yeah, they cost a bit more but they print something that you can hand to your customer with confidence and not that gut-wretching feeling as you wait for them to notice the lines and the crappy fields of color. The way I became turned on to Xerox was because of all the downtime my C500 gave me, I was forced to outsource to my nearby competitor and he has a little 242 but man does it print pretty pictures! Sorry for the rambling but I've been thru hell with this machine and if my experience can help someone else avoid a mistake, I'll ramble a little!
Good Luckbyaniess
New Member
- Joined
- 2008
- Posts
- 1
- Geo
- Southern California, USA
We have three CPP500 machines. One in an office environment and two in a mfg. setting. All three machines break down on a regular basis.
I work in the office environment and am the one responsible for requesting service for the machine. Since it rarely works for more than a week at a time (if that!) we've dubbed the machine "The Lemon".
The Lemon was "repaired" this morning and four hours later it broke down. The tech said he'll be out to fix it tomorrow. The machine, aside from the four hours it worked today, has been down since Friday (five days?!). The track record of this machine is so dismal that I highly encourage you to NEVER EVER purchase or lease one.
We have had The Lemon for 14 months and I can't even begin to tell you how many service requests have been placed for it. We've only made 205,986 copies/print jobs since we've had it.
Also, the quality is very poor. For months the coloring from left to right was drastically different, very inconsistent. This has more or less been remedied, but it took them months to figure it out.
The mother board was fired and recently replaced, along with numerous other parts. I think the drum unit has been replaced at least twice, maybe three times. Rollers for the more commonly used trays have been replaced multiple times.
Our three machines break down so frequently that they are now stock piling parts in my office to have on hand. Usually they have to order most of the parts and that can take anywhere from 24 to 48 hours. The time it takes for them to receive the parts and actually service the machine can take days.
Just today the machine jammed to the point where three employees (myself included) gave up. We cleared over 15 jams total and were able to only print about 23 of the 75 pages needed. Hopefully tomorrow I can finish my print job.
The Lemon is very unreliable, take your chances if you like, but I wouldn't wish this machine on the Taliban.
I'm so frustrated with this machine and again strongly discourage anyone from leasing or purchasing one.
We lease our machine from IKON and have a service contract with IKON. While I like both techs that service this machine (they're very pleasant, polite, helpful) I am NOT pleased with the IKON's management team. They are NOT helpful and have yet to resolve any of issues, aside from sending out a tech to service the machine. Our contract states that a tech is to service the machine within four hours of the service request. Some days they respond within the four hours, however, usually it's the next business day.
Stay away from the CPP500 unless you like your patience tested, enjoy paying for something that doesn't work, and find it fun to wait around for parts and service.
I work in the office environment and am the one responsible for requesting service for the machine. Since it rarely works for more than a week at a time (if that!) we've dubbed the machine "The Lemon".
The Lemon was "repaired" this morning and four hours later it broke down. The tech said he'll be out to fix it tomorrow. The machine, aside from the four hours it worked today, has been down since Friday (five days?!). The track record of this machine is so dismal that I highly encourage you to NEVER EVER purchase or lease one.
We have had The Lemon for 14 months and I can't even begin to tell you how many service requests have been placed for it. We've only made 205,986 copies/print jobs since we've had it.
Also, the quality is very poor. For months the coloring from left to right was drastically different, very inconsistent. This has more or less been remedied, but it took them months to figure it out.
The mother board was fired and recently replaced, along with numerous other parts. I think the drum unit has been replaced at least twice, maybe three times. Rollers for the more commonly used trays have been replaced multiple times.
Our three machines break down so frequently that they are now stock piling parts in my office to have on hand. Usually they have to order most of the parts and that can take anywhere from 24 to 48 hours. The time it takes for them to receive the parts and actually service the machine can take days.
Just today the machine jammed to the point where three employees (myself included) gave up. We cleared over 15 jams total and were able to only print about 23 of the 75 pages needed. Hopefully tomorrow I can finish my print job.
The Lemon is very unreliable, take your chances if you like, but I wouldn't wish this machine on the Taliban.
I'm so frustrated with this machine and again strongly discourage anyone from leasing or purchasing one.
We lease our machine from IKON and have a service contract with IKON. While I like both techs that service this machine (they're very pleasant, polite, helpful) I am NOT pleased with the IKON's management team. They are NOT helpful and have yet to resolve any of issues, aside from sending out a tech to service the machine. Our contract states that a tech is to service the machine within four hours of the service request. Some days they respond within the four hours, however, usually it's the next business day.
Stay away from the CPP500 unless you like your patience tested, enjoy paying for something that doesn't work, and find it fun to wait around for parts and service.
MissPrint
New Member
- Joined
- 2008
- Posts
- 1
- Geo
- United States
Ikon CPP 650
My company has a three year lease on Ikon's CPP 650 - which is two years too many, as this machine is constantly being serviced. The first year we did not experience very many problems, but since then we have had a service tech come out to service the printer nearly every week.
We print on 20 lb copier paper as well as 100 lb glossy stock. Typically it is the copier paper that jams - and by jams I mean either the paper really does jam or it just doesn't pass through for some reason.
The tech's are always finding screws that have come loose and say most of our jams are because the printer is dirty - well then clean it! Luckily we have a contract with Ikon for supplies and service, but when the printer is down for a day or two, production is decreased and we're playing catch-up. On the flip side when the machine does work, the color quality is great.
In the end I would absolutely not recommend the CPP 650 to anyone who needs a dependable printer.
My company has a three year lease on Ikon's CPP 650 - which is two years too many, as this machine is constantly being serviced. The first year we did not experience very many problems, but since then we have had a service tech come out to service the printer nearly every week.
We print on 20 lb copier paper as well as 100 lb glossy stock. Typically it is the copier paper that jams - and by jams I mean either the paper really does jam or it just doesn't pass through for some reason.
The tech's are always finding screws that have come loose and say most of our jams are because the printer is dirty - well then clean it! Luckily we have a contract with Ikon for supplies and service, but when the printer is down for a day or two, production is decreased and we're playing catch-up. On the flip side when the machine does work, the color quality is great.
In the end I would absolutely not recommend the CPP 650 to anyone who needs a dependable printer.
sellin_print
New Member
- Joined
- 2008
- Posts
- 2
- Geo
- Washington, USA
Has anyone here ever heard of somebody being successful at breaking a lease with IKON ??? I am paying almost $1400 per month for my CPP500 that is sitting right now UNPLUGGED and completely worthless to me. I've got about 12 more months of this. And, we picked up our Xerox 260, out of necessity since we couldn't print anything with our piece of crap Ikon supported machine. Now though, we have so much better click rates on the Xerox that if we were to print something on the CPP500, we would be LOSING even more money !
Halftone
New Member
- Joined
- 2008
- Posts
- 3
- Geo
- Florida
Break a lease with IKON? You have a better chance of seeing Elvis.
As for the rebadged vs. actual OEM machines, there's no comparison. Rebadged boxes have different firmware and so are often behind on field updates, for one. And some (like Oce) will opt for differently-keyed toner hoppers so you can't bail on them for real OEM service when the low CPC up front doesn't pay for the subpar service.
The Konica Minolta C6500 is a fine box and FAR superior to the old 500. Registration's tighter, media control and range is MUCH better, halos next to high-density patches are gone... Good box with the Fiery. Great box with the Creo. Just don't fall for the cheapie ColorCal on the Fiery. Get CPS. You'll be glad you did, as cal through the glass is WEAK.
With IKON bought by Ricoh, I'd advise anyone not already with them to stay away, especially from non-Ricoh boxes. Who knows how long it'll take for Ricoh to pull the rug out? But it will happen.
As for the rebadged vs. actual OEM machines, there's no comparison. Rebadged boxes have different firmware and so are often behind on field updates, for one. And some (like Oce) will opt for differently-keyed toner hoppers so you can't bail on them for real OEM service when the low CPC up front doesn't pay for the subpar service.
The Konica Minolta C6500 is a fine box and FAR superior to the old 500. Registration's tighter, media control and range is MUCH better, halos next to high-density patches are gone... Good box with the Fiery. Great box with the Creo. Just don't fall for the cheapie ColorCal on the Fiery. Get CPS. You'll be glad you did, as cal through the glass is WEAK.
With IKON bought by Ricoh, I'd advise anyone not already with them to stay away, especially from non-Ricoh boxes. Who knows how long it'll take for Ricoh to pull the rug out? But it will happen.
Jeff
Senior Member
- Joined
- 2006
- Posts
- 702
- Geo
- Michigan
When I first heard about the buyout I had that reaction -- e.g. if Ricoh controls IKON I suspect KM won't continue to co-develop machines, so these might be the last in that line. But as a customer, I don't think it matters to me. A huge part of what Ricoh is buying is the customer base. I'm sure they'll want to convert us all to ricoh machines in time, but if they don't keep us happy with the machines currently being sold that won't happen and they'll lose us to xerox, KM direct, etc. The IKON techs are already trained and I expect IKON already has what they need from KM to continue to provide good service to the existing KM models. With billions of dollars at stake, I don't see why Ricoh would do anything to mess up the customer-base they are buying.
andyhiggs
New Member
- Joined
- 2008
- Posts
- 1
- Geo
- Kansas
Do any of you have the Ikon CPP500 setup as a print share on Windows Server 2003 x64? We've bought a new print server which has the 64-bit version of Windows Server and finding a driver for this thing is dang near impossible. The Ikon is currently shared on our old print server using a LPR port and has a 32-bit driver installed. I'm trying to find someone that has gotten this thing installed and shared on a 64-bit version. I'm not getting much help from Ikon. They sent an executable a while back to give the Creo 64-bit support and that works for installing the printer on the few XP x64 machines that we have, but I need the driver INF file to install it on the server and share it. I would kick this thing to the curb if I could. I appreciate any help or sympathy.
Thanks.
Thanks.1Integrity
New Member
- Joined
- 2008
- Posts
- 4
- Geo
- United States
breaking lease on cpp500
I had heard from several sources that kinkos successfully returned all their CPP500 (konica brand) to konica minolta, because they had so many problems with them across the country. Seems to be a possible help in any legal proceedings if needed to "motivate" integrity and truth from the vendor who sells poor performing machines like that one.
I had heard from several sources that kinkos successfully returned all their CPP500 (konica brand) to konica minolta, because they had so many problems with them across the country. Seems to be a possible help in any legal proceedings if needed to "motivate" integrity and truth from the vendor who sells poor performing machines like that one.
daveinli
Member
- Joined
- 2008
- Posts
- 6
- Geo
- new york city, usa
6500
We have 2 bizhub 6500's used in full blown print production. At first we had service through a private company DPI and could not register, print, or basically complete a job without having one of their techs on site. After we threw them out we went direct with Konica Minolta service and they brought the machines up to par where we at least starting making back our investment. As of now i have gotten rid of the service contract 100% and service myself on a regular basis (no more click charges). i found a field service manual, parts, etc.. Since i have been servicing machine, production has never been higher, and quality has been much better. One you understand how the machine operates from tray to finisher, you will see not much can really go wrong. PM kits are a must, Drum changes are a must, and corona wires must be cleaned weekly. when you get streaks on a job, check corona wires first. if you see a dot on a job in a certain area it is probably a drum unit, and after inspecting drum you usually see the mark causing the problem. if you get some very bad results and all else seems good, check fusing unit, the belt can go bad from long runs due to excessive heat (very expensive belt). color adjustments are easy, just use a sheet printed a few weeks ago and compare to what you have now. best thing to do is leave machine on, this way settings stay for the most part the same. Each morning when you take machine out of standby mode, do an execute adjust operation from the adjustment menu, select all 4 items and return out of the menu, machine will totally calibrate. by doing this, the machine will not change anything in a middle of a job, will run longer periods without saying adjusting please wait. last thing, if you want into the real adjustment menus, hit utility, stop 00, stop 01. do not do anything unless you know what you are doing, but if u change a drum, you will need to initiate it here in this menu. if anyone changes a drum, make sure to remove the red screw in each end.
any questions or info needed, please ask. I have the complete field service manual and parts listing for the 6500.
one machine has over 2 million clicks and the other is at 1.8 million
we also have a 1050 and this machine is an animal, no major problems, and it just keeps clicking away. 2.5 millions click on this bad boy.
dave
We have 2 bizhub 6500's used in full blown print production. At first we had service through a private company DPI and could not register, print, or basically complete a job without having one of their techs on site. After we threw them out we went direct with Konica Minolta service and they brought the machines up to par where we at least starting making back our investment. As of now i have gotten rid of the service contract 100% and service myself on a regular basis (no more click charges). i found a field service manual, parts, etc.. Since i have been servicing machine, production has never been higher, and quality has been much better. One you understand how the machine operates from tray to finisher, you will see not much can really go wrong. PM kits are a must, Drum changes are a must, and corona wires must be cleaned weekly. when you get streaks on a job, check corona wires first. if you see a dot on a job in a certain area it is probably a drum unit, and after inspecting drum you usually see the mark causing the problem. if you get some very bad results and all else seems good, check fusing unit, the belt can go bad from long runs due to excessive heat (very expensive belt). color adjustments are easy, just use a sheet printed a few weeks ago and compare to what you have now. best thing to do is leave machine on, this way settings stay for the most part the same. Each morning when you take machine out of standby mode, do an execute adjust operation from the adjustment menu, select all 4 items and return out of the menu, machine will totally calibrate. by doing this, the machine will not change anything in a middle of a job, will run longer periods without saying adjusting please wait. last thing, if you want into the real adjustment menus, hit utility, stop 00, stop 01. do not do anything unless you know what you are doing, but if u change a drum, you will need to initiate it here in this menu. if anyone changes a drum, make sure to remove the red screw in each end.
any questions or info needed, please ask. I have the complete field service manual and parts listing for the 6500.
one machine has over 2 million clicks and the other is at 1.8 million
we also have a 1050 and this machine is an animal, no major problems, and it just keeps clicking away. 2.5 millions click on this bad boy.
dave
Copy Doctor
New Member
- Joined
- 2009
- Posts
- 3
- Geo
- california, USA
Cpp500
We have a CPP500 and it is similar to a small child, an undeveloped memory and it requires a lot a love, patience and clean up. It requires a great deal of service, the walk up memory is weak at best spitting out anything over 28 pages and exiting, of course we didn't learn about the memory issue until AFTER we purchased. The toner bottles are very small and the Ikon supply team steadfastly keeps you on a 2 bottle limit per order unless you can coerce your sales rep by dropping the Canon name. Ikon of course pushes the power press software which basically is essential to the operation otherwise the copier would be an expensive paper weight. Also if you run any large jobs you have to calibrate before continuing, it's very sensitive. Currently Ikon is peddling a CPP650 which we are very skeptical of naturally.
If your interested in Ikon and it's products spend a day at a used car lot and if your really interested purchase a vehicle, it's about the same thing.
We have a CPP500 and it is similar to a small child, an undeveloped memory and it requires a lot a love, patience and clean up. It requires a great deal of service, the walk up memory is weak at best spitting out anything over 28 pages and exiting, of course we didn't learn about the memory issue until AFTER we purchased. The toner bottles are very small and the Ikon supply team steadfastly keeps you on a 2 bottle limit per order unless you can coerce your sales rep by dropping the Canon name. Ikon of course pushes the power press software which basically is essential to the operation otherwise the copier would be an expensive paper weight. Also if you run any large jobs you have to calibrate before continuing, it's very sensitive. Currently Ikon is peddling a CPP650 which we are very skeptical of naturally.
If your interested in Ikon and it's products spend a day at a used car lot and if your really interested purchase a vehicle, it's about the same thing.
Jeff
Senior Member
- Joined
- 2006
- Posts
- 702
- Geo
- Michigan
We also ran into this problem with IKON. For the first 4 years with them we had no problems and great support/supplies on all fronts, but last year around the time they switched to the oracle backend system the toner supply chain became frustrating and unreliable for us. We still got what we needed, but some months we found we had to place 4+ orders to get it done when previously it had taken 1 or 2. Worse, they didn't say anything, email, or phone but if we ordered say 6 blacks we would wait a week and a half and then 2 would arrive. One month we had this happen, so we ordered 2 more, and 1 arrived a week later, so then we had to put in another order for the final 1 we had been shorted... the web history shows what you order regardless of how many their fulfillment shorts you so you never know what you're going to get. The web added a note that "what's shipped won't necessarily be what you order" which is also a bit of an insult -- if you estimate what you'll need to print the upcoming jobs you have, and they ship some other amount, that's not good. It's unfortunate it became so much more difficult. Even though our service (technician) is world-class excellent here, and even though we have always been able to coax what we need from the system with enough effort, the IKON toner supply chain became frustrating enough that we called Xerox and I now I'm much happier. I hope IKON can get their supply chain back in good order soon.
Copy Doctor
New Member
- Joined
- 2009
- Posts
- 3
- Geo
- california, USA
Ikon supplies
Your exactly right, we had the same issue and had the " Ikon Service Team" out for a meeting and found out that they cut the toner amounts that you could receive back because they felt that they were being sold on ebay. also we found out that they base their toner replenshment on your copier volume , however they base it on 8 1/2 x 11 paper and we were running full color doc's on 17 ". We had to have them reclassify us as a print shop to get the toner amounts to levels we could work with and even that doesn't work. We now order every other day and it seems to get past the system, but who has that kind of time. The technicians are great but we see them way to often for production purposes.
Your exactly right, we had the same issue and had the " Ikon Service Team" out for a meeting and found out that they cut the toner amounts that you could receive back because they felt that they were being sold on ebay. also we found out that they base their toner replenshment on your copier volume , however they base it on 8 1/2 x 11 paper and we were running full color doc's on 17 ". We had to have them reclassify us as a print shop to get the toner amounts to levels we could work with and even that doesn't work. We now order every other day and it seems to get past the system, but who has that kind of time. The technicians are great but we see them way to often for production purposes.
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Jeff
Senior Member
- Joined
- 2006
- Posts
- 702
- Geo
- Michigan
It could be that, but I suspect it's more that some beancounter decided to save money by squeezing their printer customers on toner trying to force them to use their expensive color machines for text coverage only which is unrealistic. Frankly if I were printing everything at 5% coverage I wouldn't buy these machines or pay the click charges as I'd save a ton buying much cheaper machines for that job. When we leased our IKON machines we had a verbal understanding with our salesman who looked at exactly what we print before we signed the lease and it worked great for a few years but the new toner supply system seems to want to really squeeze the customer --as you say, I found myself just not having the time to fight the order system to get the toner, even though I do give them credit for delivering what was needed as long as you constantly keep at it. Still I just don't have time for that. I was in line to lease a BP560 which is IKON's KM5501 but the Ikon toner supply system issue made me hesitate to do that so I went with a xerox instead.
Copy Doctor
New Member
- Joined
- 2009
- Posts
- 3
- Geo
- california, USA
Supplies and Ikon
I agree 100% , we never bought the ebay story completely, selected cases maybe but overall they are pinching the penny. Our company insists on purchasing equipment, but they also demand an extensive service agreement. We had Ikon here today and they are trying to sell us 2 CPP650's a power press and an upgrade opn our current power press, I'm very skeptical of Ikon and thier products, plus the new machins OF COURSE takes completely different toner.
I agree 100% , we never bought the ebay story completely, selected cases maybe but overall they are pinching the penny. Our company insists on purchasing equipment, but they also demand an extensive service agreement. We had Ikon here today and they are trying to sell us 2 CPP650's a power press and an upgrade opn our current power press, I'm very skeptical of Ikon and thier products, plus the new machins OF COURSE takes completely different toner.
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