H uv

Discussion in 'UV' started by Ade, Dec 21, 2013.

  1. Ade

    Ade Member

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    Hi

    We are currently using Conventional printing and UV Printing on two different presses we are looking at a compromise by changing both presses to H UV.
    has anyone had any experience with H UV I have had all the salesman talk etc,
    I just would like know if anyone has had any day to day experience with it pros and cons?

    Ade
     
  2. Ade

    Ade Member

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    Hi

    OK as I thought it isn't very popular, the main concerns I have are the consumables seam very expensive X3 times conventional something I cannot or my customers can absorb.

    Ade
     
  3. Ade

    Ade Member

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    Hi

    I am also interested in LE UV if the admin would like to change the thread title (H UV/LE UV) it would save opening another thread as before if anyone has any experience in either the Komori H UV or Heidelberg LE UV I would be grateful for any advise.

    Ade
     
  4. Ade

    Ade Member

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    Ok as I started this I will make some comment as to my findings.

    Testing so far I have had full access to testing H-UV, LE-UV and LED-UV.
    I was tempted by being able to change two separate presses into one format by both being able to do UV work and conventional work thus improving work flow unfortunately this has proved not to be the case.
    The inks in these systems are not compatible with the food industry with migration of the inks it does not come up to spec for the BRC standard, and the curing issues it does not come up to spec with most UV customers.
    Testing so far over a 24hrs period rub testing, slip testing and tape testing.
    triple coated Silk,Matt & Gloss.
    0-15mins touch dry, rub, slip ok & tape poor.
    15mins-1hrs touch dry, rub, slip & tape ok.
    1hrs-6hrs touch dry, rub, slip & tape good.
    Drip off varnish
    0-15mins touch dry rub, slip & tape poor
    15mins-1hrs touch dry rub, slip ok & tape poor
    1hrs-6hrs touch dry rub, slip ok & tape poor
    uncoated
    0-15mins touch dry rub, slip & tape ok
    15mins-1hrs touch dry rub, slip & tape ok
    1hrs-6hrs touch dry rub, slip & tape ok

    6hrs-24hrs same results it seams to get to 6hrs and stop, if you are not expecting it then leaving it will not mean it will dry any better as you would expect to happen on conventional oxidizing inks, the only comparable thing to conventional was four colour and coating on silk stock giving similar results, although conventional proved better on testing.
    LED gave slightly better results but nothing to run home about, I think it is the format of the ink is at work rather then the curing.
    As far as I can see the cost v benefit argument does not stack up cost of ink x3 over conventional, varnish x7 over conventional, so if you print on an uncoated stock and it can not go through the bindery or your customer does not like it then you are looking at varnishing it at x7 over conventional, so you are increasing production costs by x10 which you could otherwise just run a good set of hard dry four colour inks and leave it for 24hrs and get better results.
    The only benefit I can see is for long perfectors being touch dry before being turned would help with marking on the back of the sheet, if you constantly print on unstable stocks, or running on smaller presses that do not use so much ink it could work well on the Anicolor not having to change coatings every stock change will make it even more productive although I don't think Heidelberg make it suitable for LE-UV yet.
    At the end of the day you have to take everything the sales men say with a pinch of salt and do what ever is suitable for your business you have to be able to stand up on your own two feet after the honeymoon period is over when all the so called free bees end and you have to start paying full price for it all, the costs of the ink will not come down I have not yet experienced a price drop on inks given how the inks are made I wouldn't expect the costs to come down, you also need to cost in the lamps guaranteed 750hrs rollers 12months (depends on your use of the press I have seen lamps and rollers going beyond there guaranteed period although you would need to be constantly testing for curing beyond those periods),
    ultimately be very careful do your tests involve your customers if they do not like it then you are wasting your time, and do your sums as if you get it wrong it could ultimately put you out of business!

    Ade
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2014
  5. tkdieter

    tkdieter New Member

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    I agree with you I run a komori gl840p with toyo huv inks. They are 3 times as expensive as comventional but I would never run a long perfector with out them.
     
  6. TerryW

    TerryW New Member

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    Thanks for the insight Ade this is something we are looking into as well.
     

  7. Ade

    Ade Member

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    Hi TerryW

    It all depends on what you require, as far as I am concerned printing conventional UV proves to be far better and cheaper than H-UV/LE-UV.
    If you are a conventional printer and run a perfector it holds an attraction and you could justify the ROI.
    Speaking to people who have taken on Hybrid UV systems and have not run UV before they fail to take into account the full impact of problems that you get with UV, expecting the press to run as a conventional press, and coming across problems that they had not considered.
    Also some of the press manufacturers front load the press then appear to offer you discounts, then only when you are paying the full price for everything all your chickens come home to roost!

    Ade