Grainy prints on Canon 6010

Discussion in 'Canon imagePRESS Digital Presses' started by FLPNYC, Aug 19, 2014.

  1. FLPNYC

    FLPNYC Member

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    The print quality on our Canon 6010 has steadily gone down hill the more we use it. The current unfix-able issue is a grainy dot pattern that has plagued all of our prints. Not only is it in solid colors but also in high resolution images. It's gotten to the point where anything I print on this over priced box of complex lasers and mirrors it ultimately rejected by the client. Luckily we have a Ricoh 751 to pick up the slack.
    We have tried contacting everyone under the Sun at CSA and no one within the company seems to have any idea as to the issue. Three weeks ago I had a conference call with 15 different people over at Canon to come up with a solution as to the quality the prints. Promises were made to get people in to look at the press and determine the cause of the sub-par performance of their equipment. Aside from installing a line conditioner, nothing has happened.

    The technicians seem to agree that something is wrong with the quality of the prints, but no one seems to know how to fix it. I suggested printing something on their showroom press to see if the quality we are producing is up to snuff with what they are showing prospective customers. This is first on their list of things they haven't done yet, along with sending out a color specialist, or fiery specialist to see if some setting on the printer is throwing off the quality.
    The quality compared to our Ricoh is that of a desktop color printer. Grey halftone backgrounds look like static on a TV. Solids are darker along the edges of boxes or lines and muddy inside. People look sick with yellow splotches in skin tones.
    I have lost all faith in getting anything solved through CSA and their over sold under performing crap box they call a printer. :mad: Don't get me started on the shady sales team who stole lost us one of our largest accounts. :mad:

    Does anyone have any experience in dealing the similar problems to this that can shine some light on my frustrating situation? :confused:
     
  2. xfactor printing

    xfactor printing Senior Member

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    Can you post a scan showing the problem?

    What are your meter reads right now and did the problems arise suddenly or appear one by one? I find keeping a log of quality problems and major maintenance is useful keyed to date and meter read is handy.
     
  3. FLPNYC

    FLPNYC Member

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    We have under 400k on the printer. I can put some some scans in a few. I was looking at samples from when we first got the printer and it seems like a gradual deterioration in quality that has gotten to the point of customers rejecting proofs.
     
  4. FLPNYC

    FLPNYC Member

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    Last edited: Aug 19, 2014
  5. FLPNYC

    FLPNYC Member

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    [​IMG]
     

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  6. FLPNYC

    FLPNYC Member

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    Anyone have any idea why the printer is doing this? We are having jobs bounced left and right due to this quality issue is giving a very unpleasant texture to high resolution images. Skin tones look really bad because of this dot pattern.
     
  7. GarethO

    GarethO New Member

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    Trying changing your colour setup (in Command Workstation device centre) to source "none" if you are running a Fiery driven RIP. If you have a newer RIP there is an option to “Use embedded profile when present”. Use this if you have it and set the source to your most common source space.

    I find gradation gives a horrible print and have set both my Graduation and Resolution to High Resolution on the engine (found under Additional Functions->System Settings->Device Management->Dither Patterns).

    These two changes have dramatically improved our print quality.

    Here is a brochure showing the various pattern the machine creates. The driver/command workstation settings just assign which option (graduation or resolution as set on the engine) is assigned to which item within the document and do not actually change the patterns themselves.

    BTW I have my engine set to 1200 with no issues.
     
  8. FLPNYC

    FLPNYC Member

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    Even with High Resolution set on the printer the images are grainy. The Image press 6010 only has a 300 dpi ability for images but boast about 1200 x 1200.
    the 1200 x 1200 is only for text it does not apply to images. It can only do 268lpi. When printing half tone backgrounds it will always look like sand.
    This is what CSA has told me, even though when they sold us the printer. Everyone from sales to color specialist said it would be equal, if not better, than the quality we were getting from out Ricoh. Having to reprint projects on an already booked Ricoh is not something that is helping my company.
     

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  9. GarethO

    GarethO New Member

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    Yes, I have since learned that you are correct. The 1200dpi is a complete gimmick.

    The tech told me the same thing and basically told me never to use it.

    300dpi images is the standard, but you can run the job resolution via the Fiery if you want 600dpi images, but I was warned off this as it may lead to less uniform colour across the page.

    But that aside, I am pretty skeptical of the differences in those two prints.

    The colour of the two prints are completely different, the Ricoh looks as though it is completely blown out.

    Did you run both jobs from the same (embedded fogra39) file with source ISO coated V2 (fogra39) source and custom ICC output, then scan with the same settings on the same scanner?

    From that file I could make the assumption that the grain on the Canon is due to underexposure, and the lack of grain on the Ricoh is due to blown highlights, most likely caused by incorrect colour management.

    But you haven't given me enough details to make that call.

    Also, do you have a good Canon tech? It sounds like they are fairly good, but these things need a Midas touch. We complained about ours and the new one is leagues ahead of our old one.
     
  10. FLPNYC

    FLPNYC Member

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    The two most recent files I posted up were scanned images. It is difficult to see but the canon had was printing the image at 80% brightness and the background was grainy and dark. The Ricoh, even though you can't see it in the scan, had a very clean smooth and uniform dot pattern. More detail was show in the image. The customer obviously preferred the detain and smooth image over the grainy print of the Canon.
    This is a daily occurrence with this press. We print something on the Canon, because our Ricoh is booked. Customer doesn't like it and we end up staying after hours to push the full production through the Ricoh any way.
    If anyone is in the market, Avoid Canon Equipment.
     
  11. steve o

    steve o Member

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    With this press I believe there is no way around the graininess. I have played around with different settings for hours and this is what I believe the best settings are for this press. For you Dither Pattern set to Gradation / High Resolution (should be default settings). Make sure Cannon changes the starter cartridges by 30% or less. Anything after 30% will start to look more grainy & modally. ** Magenta should be changed more often than the rest
     

  12. paulprinting

    paulprinting New Member

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    same experience with 7010vps - extremely poor machine and shocking service when it comes to management
    ive been accused of vandalism due to machine not performing to what we want????? highest click turnover in perth for canon and get no help
    Any questions contact me for full run down
    OCE machines are going to suffer now due to canon retrofitting parts
    using ricoh c901ga+ awesome quality and consistent colour reproduction
     
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