Fuse breaking in Heidelberg speed master 102 cd machine

Discussion in 'Heidelberg Printing Presses' started by AlokPrakash01, Jan 6, 2022.

  1. AlokPrakash01

    AlokPrakash01 Member

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    Before fuse breaking, one power card's capacitor was burned and when we inserted the new card, we found that fuse was broken. Then we replaced the fuse and again machine started but again it stooped after one hr. The same two fuse were broken. Please find the picture of fuse area. Please suggest the possible way to get out of it.
     
  2. AlokPrakash01

    AlokPrakash01 Member

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    Any solution ?
     

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  3. AlokPrakash01

    AlokPrakash01 Member

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    Fuse number is f5
     
  4. AlokPrakash01

    AlokPrakash01 Member

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    Pic attached
     

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  5. Alonex

    Alonex Senior Member

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    Dear Alok,

    You have a short or over-current in chains supplied via the fuses. You should start checking from the three-phase rectifier bridge (seen under the fuses on your picture) , relevant capacitor(s), and so on, I do not have any schematic of this machine, nor more pictures.

    Regards,
    Oleg T.
    Alonex ICEE Labs
     
  6. AlokPrakash01

    AlokPrakash01 Member

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    Thank you for the reply. Please find the images which I have and suggest which one I have to test
     

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  7. Alonex

    Alonex Senior Member

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    Dear Alok,

    Please follow my previous message.
    The additional pictures you have sent, were useless.

    Regards,
    Oleg T.
    Alonex ICEE Labs
     
  8. AlokPrakash01

    AlokPrakash01 Member

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    Dear oleg T.

    I checked capacitor and rectifier. Both of them are working and giving the rit value in multimeter. The fuse which I am insersting is of 20 amphere. Sometimes machine is running for 12 hrs and then fuse is blowing off and sometimes within 15 mints. Not able to figure out why this is happening.
    Please suggest.
     
  9. AlokPrakash01

    AlokPrakash01 Member

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    As I had written earlier that during fist time fuse blowing, capacitor of power card has also burned and we had replaced with another power card, but from then we found that as soon as machine is switched on, the dampening motors of unit 1,2,3 are also starting. Earlier dampening motor gets on, only when water is sensed by sensor. Please suggest
     
  10. AlokPrakash01

    AlokPrakash01 Member

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    Power card which has burnt earlier was of REE. The first one NTK24
     
  11. AlokPrakash01

    AlokPrakash01 Member

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    Interesting thing is out three fuse only two fuses are blowing off
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2022
  12. Adil

    Adil Senior Member

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    To resolve this type of problem, you must have a connection diagram and the name of the card to understand its operation; also check if there is an error message in the diagnostic menu to find out the cause of this overcurrent.
    Changing the fuse every time is not useful and it is not a solution
     
    ABDALLH SANDAFI likes this.
  13. Alonex

    Alonex Senior Member

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    Dear Alok,

    You will find more interesting to study the basic of electronics, rectifier bridge-, and three-phase bridge circuits. Yes, of course, it is enough only two fuses to be burned, in order to break completely a three-phase power supplying circuit, while only one fuse is enough in a single phase power supplying. Capacitor(s) of a DC bridge may be blown up due a reverse voltage caused by shorted diode(s) of the bridge, or due an overvotage which was supplied from mains or from a motor commutation bridge.

    - Have you checked each of six diodes of the bridge? (you have additional exactly such bridge for reference)
    - What is the max allowed voltage of the bridge capacitor, and an actual voltage on it?
    - Disconnect any load of the DC bus. If the power input bridge is ok, I would check motor breaking resistor if any, its commutation circuit, and motor output bridge (near the same checking technique as the input bridge).
    - Motor itself should be checked electrically and mechanically.

    REE and NTK24, "earlier" and "first" encryptions tell me nothing. This machine has never been designed/serviced/used by me as a whole machine. I try to conduct you via general trails, which should be passed while faults resolving in virtually any motor controlling circuits. The machine fault , the trails, and readers of these forums, ask for less scream messages, and more useful informative steps in silence.
    You will success finally.

    Regards,
    Oleg T.
    Alonex ICEE Labs
     
  14. Sandeep kumar

    Sandeep kumar Senior Member

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    You can change GRM 24 .or any other NTK5 is faulty.you can whatsapp more at 00919810902830
     
  15. AlokPrakash01

    AlokPrakash01 Member

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    Sir,
    We checked as per your suggestion and found that sensor of dampening motor was faulty. We removed it and has given for repair. But again after running for 6 days, again machine's same fuses are blowing off. Now machine is not even running for 1 mint also. Please suggest
     
  16. Alonex

    Alonex Senior Member

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    Dear Alok,

    As I noted before, I am not familiar with the machine in order to understand a complete picture of the fault and to provide you an exact solution. So, remote suggestions look as useless and even dangerous.

    In general, not in small details:
    0. A local qualified service provider should be ordered.
    1. The motor DC bus rectifier should be checked off its load, properly.
    2. The motor drive should be checked, especially its output power bridge, its breaking resistor/circuit if any.
    3. The motor should be checked electrically and mechanically. What was the sensor? What was the sensor's fault?

    Regards,
    Oleg T.
    Alonex ICEE Labs
     
  17. AlokPrakash01

    AlokPrakash01 Member

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    Dear sir,
    This machine is speed master 102 cd 28"x40" of 1991.
     
  18. Alonex

    Alonex Senior Member

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    Dear Alok,

    You did not understand me. I am just an Electronic/Embedded SW/Automation Engineer, but I did not
    designed/serviced/used this machine, and never had any documentation for this machine.

    It is very difficult to instruct someone remotely, out of the machine, while getting incomplete feedbacks from him, sorry. In addition, you are asking for a wizard's answer, which I cannot provide you. You should perform a complex of tests (not on "XOR", but on "&" basis), analyze the tests' results, and finally to get a solution yourself, or even from here.

    Read again the topic, and think what can you do.

    Regards,
    Oleg T.
    Alonex ICEE Labs
     
  19. Adil

    Adil Senior Member

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    Please, send me the init-test and Dyn-test to have an idea on your problem
    Are there any error messages?
    Tell me your problem
     
    ABDALLH SANDAFI likes this.

  20. AlokPrakash01

    AlokPrakash01 Member

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    Dear sir,
    There are three fuses on GRM24 board, out of which two are blowing off. 1st time when fuse was blown off, at that time capacitor of ntk5 card of REE slot was damaged and we repaied it and changed the fuse but after running for 12 hrs again both the fuses were broken. We are inserting 20 amphere fuse and running the machine. We checked each ERK and NTK cards, all are working correctly. Sometimes machine is running for 4 days and then fuse are blowing off and sometimes even it is not running for 10 minutes also.
     
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