DC242 / DC252 registration in the real world

[clickpostcard]

Hi,
We're thinking about getting a refurbed DC242 / DC252 in a contract. We're currently using a Phaser 7400.

From trawling t'internet, I see the 550/560s have better registration than the 242/252s. BUT, does anyone know how good/bad the 242/252s are in a real world situation? If I'm happy with the registration on the Phaser 7400 will I also be happy with the 242/252? Or is it worse than the Phaser?

Thanks,
Gavin

 

[kristianeyman]

Never used a 7400, but.....I do have 3-7655's and can tell you about the registration. Sheet to sheet there is going to be about a 3mm sheet bounce, the heavier the stock, more bounce. Front to back registration is always better when it's a work and turn. You have to play around with it a bit, but you can achieve very close (~1mm) registration. Also I have the 7655 with embedded rip, your 240/250 may have a external fiery or creo and thus better registration. Hope this helps.

 

[Jeff]

I have a 242 with the embedded Fiery RIP.

Printing 1-sided I can get better than 1 mm registration, probably 0.5mm.
But it takes me around 10 test prints to get it.
I print, look by folding in front of a light, login to the machine and go to adjust image position, set the x for the stock and the y, and repeat until it's on. Then it will hold it for me for the run.

But the next day or a few days later or when I change stock or print the back side of the already printed sheet I have to adjust it again.

I only print from the oversize high capacity feeder.
I don't seem to get as good sheet registration from the drawers so I don't use them.

At about 600k 11x17 I started getting terrible inconsistent registration on duplex (way off) and replaced the right side duplex assembly. Now I can get ok duplex registration again.

 

[clickpostcard]

Thanks both, that's brilliant feedback. This might sound like a stupid question, but does the RIP really affect the registration consistency? I'd assume the registration 'problems' we caused by physically things such as pickup rollers, sensors, feed roller etc and the only way to improve this would be to 'upgrade' the physical components (like Xante do on the Oki lasers). Or am I wrong here? Can the RIP really improve things? I've been offered an FTR'd 242 with Creo at £6,000 GBP but I was kind of thinging the Creo is overkill for what we need.

We generally use only 2 different stocks for our print jobs so it sounds like the registration tolerances would be... errm... tolerable - especially because our (very nice) Morgana cutter uses registration marks - I was just a little worried about side 2. Because we use 300 (to 350) gsm, I was never entertaining using the internal duplex.

Gavin

 

[Jeff]

I personally don't think the RIP is going to make any difference to the registration, except to maybe make it quicker to get it right on.

With my Fiery bustled RIP, because I use coreldraw a lot I have to use the PPD which doesn't have easy access to set the image shift. Also I have no ability to change the image shift on the fly with the embedded RIP/printer setup.
So the way I tweak registration is to print a test print. Then I login to the printer as admin on the printer itself and go through the menu system to reach adjust image position, plain x, then down down, y, then exit, exit, exit to back out. Then send another print and remeasure, and adjust as necessary. It works fine, but the "I think the next one will be perfect... nope, not quite I went too far" iterations can add 3-12 minutes if registration is critical and if it's a complicated job that takes another 60 seconds to re-RIP.

In an absolutely ideal world what I'd love would be a printer/RIP combo where I could RIP the job once and then one test print came out. If it was ok, I would hit "Run". If not I'd be able to hit "nudge registration" and nudge the image shift slightly without having to re-RIP the job, just quickly get test print 2 out, renudge if necessary, then get test print 3 and finally hit "Run" and have the count start from there. But I don't think that's on the table

 

[Jeff]

P.S. I probably should have said 1 mm above to be safe. I was thinking of leading and tail distance from image to sheet edge when I said I can get 0.5mm, but I do get some skew in the short y dimension as well and there will be a few sheets which are slightly off, so 1mm is probably a safer mark.

The customer expectation document states +/- 1.5mm along the lead edge for all paper trays. Side edge registration is +/- 1.7mm for trays 1-4 and +/- 2.9mm for the bypass tray. Skew registration is +/- 1.5mm along 200 mm of the side edge in all trays for an 8.5 x 11 sheet of 24 lb media.
I'd say if you bring a ream of unknown paper, walk up to the machine, and hit print one copy, this is a fair expectation.

I didn't get a specific written specification for the OHCF but it's definitely better registration and actually a noticeably tighter fit to hold the sheets to start than the drawers. I had a pickup wheel problem with the OHCF one month and tried to print from drawers 1 and 2 instead and wasn't very happy with the registration I was able to get -- very happy I spent a little more and got the OHCF. I now only use the other drawers very sparingly for things that don't need tight sheet registration accuracy like invoices and letterheads where the content is in from the edge. If I'm in a real hurry or have a job of 10 sheets, it can be a bit frustrating, but most of my runs are 250 to 1500 on the machine so taking a few minutes to dial it in for different roller condition, environmental conditions, and paper each day or two and it does the job well for me.

 

[Jeff]

I personally don't think the RIP is going to make any difference to the registration, except to maybe make it quicker to get it right on.

I apologize for the run-on post - it's been a long day.

Thinking about this more, I should stress that my only experience is with the bustled fiery on the 242 and I'd also like to know where the more advanced RIPs might offer more sheet registration correction control. My Fiery RIP does of course have tray alignment which allows me to print a sheet which has A, B, and C marks on each side, and A, B, and C on the duplex side. That is, a mark on the lead and tail short side and a mark on one long side both on the front side and duplex side. I can then fold and cross fold and enter whether the mark is centered or which + or - tick is in the center, and then either enter or enter and check again.
But entering the x or y correction adjustment through the machine's control panel is faster for me, BUT through the docucolor's control panel itself you can only enter x corrections for each media and y corrections but no image rotation correction, no skew correction. (the embedded fiery driver's imageshift option also has no rotation or skew adjustment.)

I'd be very curious if any of the more advanced RIPs have a quicker registration/skew fine adjustment and one that can be entered closer to on the fly.