comparing Heidelberg XL 105 with Manroland 705

Discussion in '4-Color Offset Presses +' started by kamran, Apr 13, 2010.

  1. kamran

    kamran New Member

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    Hi,
    I was just looking into differences between these 2 machines: weak and strong points of each.
     
  2. steveo

    steveo Senior Member

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    wow Ive run both , right now Id have to say the heidy is better but they both have similar qualities , a lot of stuff is enginerred the same way as far as the electronics , too many to list right now , gotta go to work......interesting!

    Steve
     
  3. kamran

    kamran New Member

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    Thanks Steve, But right now we are in the stage of choosing one: Heidelbeg is more expensive and let install base. The manroland is having more installations and less expensive. In our company some people are for manroland and some for Heidelberger; but I'm sure most of those Heidelberg guys are looking only into the design. Can you give some of the weak points of Heidelberg XLs?
     
  4. The Heidelberg Guy

    The Heidelberg Guy Senior Member

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    Looking forward to Steveo's points, but to answer your question, the XL105's are very nice machines. I cannot think of one thing that is an issue, its all positives!!!!
     
  5. kamran

    kamran New Member

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    Looking to the display name, I wouldn't expect another answer! But for sure you are one of those who knows those things I'm looking for: weak points.
     
  6. The Heidelberg Guy

    The Heidelberg Guy Senior Member

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    I'm sure thats how it looks, but I am no longer employed by Heidelberg, I have nothing to gain nor lose by stating my opinion. My only complaint on the machine is that the rollers are very heavy, but needs to so it can print the way it does at 18,000iph.
     
  7. kamran

    kamran New Member

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    Thank you so much and I appreciate. But could you please tell me what causes this weight of the rollers?
     
  8. mrheidelberg

    mrheidelberg Senior Member

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    .........The length of the stock, the diameter of the stock and the amount rubber on the stock.

    The bigger the rollers the more ink they can carry.

    Regards.
     
  9. steveo

    steveo Senior Member

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    I really cant think of any.....Ive only been running this press a few weeks and its a temp position , its got too many good features so I cant think of any weak points ....seriously!....
    Steve

     
  10. Olle

    Olle Member

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    With weight he probably means, that when he was working for Heidelberg, he had to install rollers, and it is not much fun, when they are heavy.

    XL-105 is most probably best sheetfed offset press at the market now.
     
  11. The Heidelberg Guy

    The Heidelberg Guy Senior Member

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    Bingo!!! :)

    But seriously, the cores are larger in diameter and solid! Form 4 is 58#!!!
     
  12. NGR

    NGR Member

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    Yeah, XL105's are a good machine but you won't better an R700 on shrpness of dot. The drive system is I feel superior to the Heidelbergs, plus R700's have larger diameter rollers and the forme damper is a mighty size. Each to their own I suppose. Those that like Hindenbergs and those that don't. The choice will come down to what you have to print and how each press fit's into your business. The features of eah press can be endless depending on how you option them.
     
  13. choken31

    choken31 Member

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    i am actually using a 97 heidelberg CD 102 6+LX, we bought a brand new manroland 706LV that will begin production in february of 2011.
    i think that the XL is really faster than the R700, but, at least in my country, are really more expensive, so, we went for the roland. i will write in a couple of months telling you my experience.
     
  14. turbotom1052

    turbotom1052 Senior Member

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    Im not sure of this and perhaps heidelberg guy can comment but im thinking that a simultaneous plate changing system is not an option of the xl press where roland offers the direct drive option? To me that sounds like a great option to have available to a short run quick get up and go shop which we all seem to be these days!!! To be able to change 5 or 6 or even 10 plates in around a minute seems like an option that can be recouped over a pretty short time when you consider that even with full autoplate its going to take you app a minute per unit.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2011
  15. aqazi81

    aqazi81 Senior Member

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    Yup TT... Simultaneous Plate Change is not on heidelberg......
    On Manroland Direct Drive During job change Wash ups, blanket wash and plate change goes simultaneously.... print length can be altered during run...
    Great!!!
     
  16. GONDAL

    GONDAL Member

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    HI are you printing paper or only board on the 6 LX.
     
  17. choken31

    choken31 Member

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    we print from 90gr paper to 400gr board with the CD it can manage everything..
    the roland 706 started production four days ago.
    first impression:
    feeder is a joy
    inking units are very stable
    varnish blanket "quick change" must be called "crawl change". is a torture.
    it is still in testing process, so, i have to wait a couple of months to see it productivity.
     
  18. rapida guy

    rapida guy Member

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    First of all I will state that I was an employee of KBA North America. Product Manager and District Sales Manager. Disclaimer aside, I have no axe to grind and no reason to support any machine over another. I am a press aquisition consultant and advise printers on all manufacturers.
    I know both of these machines pretty well and both are fine examples of German engineering.
    The Roland does have an advantage in change-over times with the servo driven cylinders.
    Heidelberg has just recently offered fully auto plate loading so the experience edge again goes to Roland.
    Both have suspect ink fountains by design but the ancient mylar "foil" design of the Heidelberg is the least repetative for color.
    The machine drive on the Heidelberg is simpler and will cause fewer print issues.
    Feeder to feeder, a wash.
    Gripper systems, I am not sure about the Heidelberg but if it is still their old multiple spring design the Roland design is superior.
    Delivery, again pretty much a wash.
    Ease of operation, likely the Heidleberg.
    Maintenance, the Heidelberg.
    Now for my real opinion, the KBA Rapida 106 will mop the floor with either one. LOL!
    All fine machines, keep an open mind and select what makes sense for you.
     
  19. JOHNYPRINT

    JOHNYPRINT Member

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    Hi guys
    first a question for rapidaguy off topic, do you know if roland make a suction brush for a roland 700, this device would be attached to the infeed and remove spray powder and debris before the sheet enters the press? .
    Now back to the topic of conversation. About 12 months ago the company i worked for were looking at new machinery and i was taken to see a KBA 10 colour in their radebuel factory in germany, soon after i saw the heidelberg 105 XL 10 colour demonstrated at their facility in brentford UK, and i have to say the heidelberg was a far superior peice of kit, although i agree that the foil system in the heidelberg duct is a let down because they wear and this affects the duct settings(even if you do wind them out a bit each day) . both presses were long perfectors and had there own versions of automatic colour control, the KBA could not get and maintain an acceptable level of colour compared to the heidelberg system. this in my opinion was due to the fact that the KBA scanning heads were perched outside the press and veiwed the sheet through a slit in the impression cylinder guard , the heidelberg system was mounted inside the the press right above the sheet on the cylinder. on both occasions we saw the respective demonstrators print both sides on paper and card the KBA marked quite bad on the reverse and could not get acceptable fit across the sheet, the heidelberg did not mark on card or paper either side of the sheet and was in perfect register. I am a printer and i am currently running a roland 706, in the past i have run a KBA rapida 8 colour , and a heidelberg 102 CDLX which was at the time brand new so it was a luxury its hard to compare different types of press wich are designed to print different types of work. In conclusion as far as the long-perfectors are concerned the heidelberg is the best at printing the KBA and roland are easy to maintain in terms of setting grippers without an engineer. I look forward to your return. regards john
     

  20. rapida guy

    rapida guy Member

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    I cannot speak about press tests I wasn't at, but I can say that I NEVER lost a print test on a long perfector when I was at KBA. The older generation KBA perfectors had a clear advantage in unit to unit registration due to not having jackets on the downline impression cylinders instead used solid roughened cylinders. The new KBA's now use jackets I believe. The Heidelberg pincer gripper was a weak point as well but I am sure the new machines have fixed that issue of excessive wear.
    Both are fine machines as well as the Roland. Press tests can and do go either way depending on the day it seems.
    The new servo driven cylinders on the Ra 106 and Roland are super at job changeover. There is a book printer in the U.S. that goes through almost 2000 plates PER DAY on a 4 over 4 KBA. That's 240 jobs in 24 hours.
    Selecting a machine is a grueling task and one should keep an open mind to new technologies and weigh all the factors.
    Between the XL and a R-700, I would go with the Heidelberg too.
     
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