Any such thing as a gloss finisher for toner-based digital printers?

Discussion in 'Gloss Coatings' started by Jeff, Sep 8, 2006.

  1. Jeff

    Jeff Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2006
    Messages:
    702
    Location:
    Michigan
    Any such device as a glosser that would apply a gloss finish to variable data color laser-printed pieces to attain a look close to a gloss uv or aqueous coated conventionally printed offset piece?
     
  2. Color Printing Forum Admin

    Color Printing Forum Admin Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 2006
    Messages:
    287
    Kodak's Nexpress NexGlosser seems to be technology addressing the request for perfectly even high(er) gloss laser printed pieces; I don't have a price on it but suspect it may be quite an expensive way to go.
     
  3. Jeff

    Jeff Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2006
    Messages:
    702
    Location:
    Michigan
    It appears both vistaprint and 4over.com have the capability to gloss coat a variable data short-run print (with white text knocked out of a photograph background, not a two-part process) -- presumably these are laser printed pieces (unless they're line inkjet printed from an indigo for example, but I don't think so) I would be very interested if anyone knows what equipment they are using to gloss these variable data pieces.
     
  4. Color Printing Forum Admin

    Color Printing Forum Admin Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 2006
    Messages:
    287
    http://www.pattechnology.com/
    http://www.pattechnology.com/pdf/brochure_varstar.pdf
     
  5. sanjosedigi

    sanjosedigi New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2007
    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    san jose, ca
    that varstar looks like a fantastic machine. unfortunately it's $195,000.00.
    anything comparable? preferably with spot-coating capabilities?
     
  6. Jeff

    Jeff Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2006
    Messages:
    702
    Location:
    Michigan
    Same reaction here after getting a quote (I wasn't sure if the quote was in USD or Canadian, but either way, it's a lot) - it looks like a very nice machine, but I don't have the volume or additional revenue from applying a nicer finish to afford that. I'm wondering if using an older model press and researching how different traditional offset coatings might apply over toner is the more economical path to follow.

    Also have not recieved a quote yet for a NexGlosser -- I suspect this will be more affordable actually, but still quite expensive and I'm not sure about how the NexGlosser's operating cost per piece would compare.
     
  7. sanjosedigi

    sanjosedigi New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2007
    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    san jose, ca
    i really don't know a lot about UV at this point. we recently got a xerox docucolor so i know we can't do aqueous with the toner-based ink. we're capable of varnishing jobs but it's just too much of a pain for short runs, which is what we're doing a lot of. we run a lot of club flyers and would get more jobs in if we had a UV machine. xerox told us that they have paper that is comparable to UV coating. yeah, right. we could outsource but our competition provides UV at no additional charge so that would hurt the bottom line. currently, a lot of the club flyers are adorned with spot-coating as well. this would really run up costs since we'd have to go back to the negative and plate method....
     
  8. Jeff

    Jeff Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2006
    Messages:
    702
    Location:
    Michigan
    Forgive my ignorance -- I come from digital only printing 25,000/month on canon equipment but having outsorced all color offset work to date.

    What do you consider too short a run for varnishing? Is it a no-go because of your desire to spot coat only, or also in the setup/cleanup/or simple running of flood/continuous varnishing? I was thinking of acquiring and adapting an older machine to 'varnish on the cheap' as suggested here:
    http://boardserver.superstats.com/r...0&u=ru1fus1&id=1886&thread=1880&f=1&u=ru1fus1 for our runs of 500-1400 of each sheet.

    K2 makes a uv coater -- their Digicoater -- that is an adapted ABDick press with exit conveyor and uv dryer for $31,000 that they say is used extensively to gloss coat xerox ouput. www.k2systemsgroup.com
     

    Attached Files:

  9. paulh

    paulh New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2007
    Messages:
    3
    I heard that k2 was out of business; I also heard that the Varstar unit sells for as little as $150,000 for digital output
     
  10. Jeff

    Jeff Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2006
    Messages:
    702
    Location:
    Michigan
    I just got three emails back from k2 -- they seem very responsive to questions so I don't think they're out of business...

    The Varstar looks like an awesome machine, but you need some serious volume to pay for $150,000 for a glossing-only unit. For that amount of money we could buy a used Heidelberg with inline coating...

    (edit: fall 2007 - it appears I was mistaken re: k2 :()
     
  11. Jeff

    Jeff Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2006
    Messages:
    702
    Location:
    Michigan
    Thanks for posting the info Pat,

    Do you get as nice and even a coating hand-feeding as with a percisely timed automatic feeder? What happens to the excess coating where a delay occurs between sheets? On the manual feeder, what exactly is the infeed/pickup like -- is there a good photo of the infeed area of the manual feed machine?

    13k for the optional feeder adds over 1/3 to the nice price of your entry-level UV coater; even though I know you've said a person can hand feed 2000 an hour, it's a pretty undesirable tedius job and I don't see myself wanting to do it... but I suppose a young person might not mind doing this and 13k would pay a lot of hours so a person might actually be cheaper than the feeder for low volumes... Of course the feeder is available 24/7/365 and doesn't get carpal tunnel...
     
  12. guest-45

    guest-45 Guest

    Jeff:

    The feeder has little to do with the quality of the coating, that is all achieved within the coating tower itself. Our machine just happens to be built on a better platform that the other roller coaters in the market. Once the sheet enters the the tower, it is picked up with grippers and firmly held in place as it coats. You can expect as good or better coating as compared to any other roller coater. I will send you a photo of the unit on your direct email so that you can see the feeder. The value in our automated systems is that they are blanket coaters using a unique anilox cylinder. While our price of $59,000 for the 18" x 25" fully automated model is the best value in the industry, it is overkill for your project.

    Actually the price of the feeder is considerally less than competition, with the volume you are doing, hand fed is a better option. You could not economically justify any manufacturers' feeder; for your application, it would just be a convenience. If you look at your overall payback, you have to decide what the value of the purchase is worth. Based on what we discussed, it appears the ability to have control over your job times is more important than the cost, whatever that may be. For example, if you are doing 3000 sheets per month, I would estimate that you are paying at least $300 to $400 per month. If you bring it in house, your operating costs {excluding machine costs would be less than $30 to $40 per month. No matter how you slice it, this cannot be a financial decision.

    <url removed by request of original poster>
     
  13. Skip

    Skip New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2007
    Messages:
    1
  14. guest-45

    guest-45 Guest


    Skip:

    The word on the street is that they are not marketing coating equipment any longer since they were bought out by a screen company.

    We can offer a better solution that does not have "orange peel" tendencies. Please go to <url removed by request of original poster>
     
  15. Glenn

    Glenn New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2007
    Messages:
    3
  16. Glenn

    Glenn New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2007
    Messages:
    3
  17. guest-45

    guest-45 Guest

  18. swedeson

    swedeson Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2007
    Messages:
    4
    Glenn
    Why do you say this?
     
  19. Glenn

    Glenn New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2007
    Messages:
    3
    I didn't say that.
     

  20. Color Printing Forum Admin

    Color Printing Forum Admin Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 2006
    Messages:
    287
    Sorry - some posts had to be removed from this thread. Some of the posts above by "guest-45" above do contain some interesting information so they remain, but "guest-45" was involved with a competitive UV coating machine manufacturer that apparently ceased operation before they really got going (not one that is mentioned in this thread currently) so take statements such as that with a grain of salt.