Xerox failure responsbilety ?

[Michaelhald]

We have 4 pieces. Xerox 5000 machines.
From the start with all the machines we have experienced huge problems with the operation of them. Up to 1 year has passed with an average of 3 to 5 visits per week of technician, before some kind of operational status was instated.
We have taken this up with Xerox repeatedly with respect to our huge extra costs this has caused.
All sorts of excuses have come from Xerox, but certainly not a liability they will take for the failure of the machines, nor any financial responsibility that they have incurred because of this.

Has anyone else experienced this arrogance and total customer contempt that they show us.

 

[xfactor printing]

What print volume are you running on each of your 5000s?

And what kind of prints are you running (odd stock?)

Were your machines purchased new and installed by xerox and under constant service contract?

What machines did you have prior to the 5000s? You installed all 4 5000s at the same time?

What specific issues are you encountering?

 

[Michaelhald]

70 to 100 thousand on each
Running magazines with 200gr./120gr. - And duplex 200 gr.
2 and 2 was installed with ca. 1,5 year between them.
3 of them were new from start
Had Canon before
No specific issues, just wondering if this is normal from Xerox
In fearness Canon was just the same

 

[xfactor printing]

In the USA, when I did my contract there is a customer expectation document which also specifies that a tech will be onsite within the timeframe we agreed to. I also have a total satisfaction guarantee as part of my contract which specifies the machine will be replaced if I'm not satisfied with it's performance within 3 years of the install date as long as only xerox consumables are used and as long as I am current in my payments.

You have a bigger operation than I do. I sometimes get annoyed when people complain about a printer array that I would dream of having
Sometimes people also expect equipment to be trouble free which I think is unrealistic. But I'd expect the tech to have the parts and fix your machine as they need service within the timeframe agreed to in the contract.

Are there some common stop errors which you are seeing repeatedly? Is it a quality issue or an all-out machine-wont-run that you are facing?

 

[Michaelhald]

We have timeframe for support of 2 hours, normally they have been here on time.
The problem during the startup period (uptil 1 year) is that repeatedly different problems has
come back within days and sometime hours after the tech has left.

About your comment of unrealistic expectations, when they sell you equipment they promise you
the moon. And uptime over 80% should be the least you could expect, we have been under that in the startup periods.

 

[xfactor printing]

What are some of the specific problems that keep coming back for you?

 

[Michaelhald]

Color variations, paper jams, streaks in the printing, etc.

 

[wagsgraphx]

You can always utilize the total satisfaction guarantee, tell them you want new machines.
Don't be surprised if they come back and pitch a bigger machine, next model up etc. Been through that with them. They even tried to sell us an iGen when it clearly did not fit our volume. Are you running a humidifier in the room?

 

[Michaelhald]

Hi
They have tried with larger machines, etc. but the point is then you're tied to them for a long time, and that they are more expensive than other suppliers. The quality of comparable machines can no longer justify Xerox's arrogance and we are the best attitude.
Moisture Construction we have.

 

[xfactor printing]

Here xerox is a great value for us.
The cost per print is very competitive and I have had a very good experience with the xerox technicians who provide service here.
Any machine for me is a long time commitment. I do 60-month leases.
I also expect issues with every machine as I've encountered jam issues, streak issues, pickup issues, duplexing issues, etc. with canon, km, ricoh, and xerox all. For me it's part of printing to face problems, isolate, change drums if needed, change wheels if needed, change belts if needed, change developer if needed, get replacement parts or service, and keep going.
I think it does come down to who provides your local service and how good the local service is; I have no experience with service in Norway obviously.

 

[Michaelhald]

Great for you, but here in Norway it is a different story.
We also have 2 pcs. Ricoh Pro C901, here's the follow-up customer and they take responsibility financially when machines have problems a completely different story.
What I can not comprehend is that in practice, Xerox says that we do NOT want us as customers, considering that we are about. an average of 600 to 700 000 clicks a month. This is because they will not admit their own mistakes on the machines and customer service

 

[xfactor printing]

Color variations, paper jams, streaks in the printing, etc.

It's hard to get a handle on what is happening on your 4 machines without being there. These very general problems sounds like problems that occur with every digital machine I've used, but they've been solved through replacing parts as needed and then continuing to print.

 

[wagsgraphx]

I will say this, we do have good techs in our area. It's the main reason we stuck with Xerox. I just don't like their sales tactics.

 

[annabanna]

I have a color 550. We have had nothing but problems since day one. It has been in my shop for a year we just did a TSG (total satis. guarantee) on it and the new one is worse than our old one. Both machines have bad banding on cover stock, toner will not stick on coated stock, locks up all the time, and bypass feeding/paper accepting issues to name just a few things. We gave Xerox 3 months and they still cannot fix the current problems. We are in a contract and they want us to do a sales reversal on our 550 and do a new contract for a more expensive 700 machine. We want to hold them to the contract - meaning fix it or replace it with similar machine (the 700) at original 550 contract price.DOES ANYONE ELSE HAVE A 550 WITH SIMILAR PROBLEMS OR BEEN THROUGH THIS SITUATION?

 

[xfactor printing]

I have a color 550. We have had nothing but problems since day one. It has been in my shop for a year we just did a TSG (total satis. guarantee) on it and the new one is worse than our old one. Both machines have bad banding on cover stock, toner will not stick on coated stock, locks up all the time, and bypass feeding/paper accepting issues to name just a few things. We gave Xerox 3 months and they still cannot fix the current problems. We are in a contract and they want us to do a sales reversal on our 550 and do a new contract for a more expensive 700 machine. We want to hold them to the contract - meaning fix it or replace it with similar machine (the 700) at original 550 contract price.DOES ANYONE ELSE HAVE A 550 WITH SIMILAR PROBLEMS OR BEEN THROUGH THIS SITUATION?

See if they would give you a 260 instead. The 250 / 260 were and are great machines.

 

[annabanna]

We had a 242 before this machine and it was a work horse, but i like to keep up with technology. I do not want a OFFICE copier and that is what xerox is trying to tell me the 550 is but if you look at their web site it is listed under the production machines.

 

[xfactor printing]

As far as I can tell, the 550/560 are the 242/252/260 replacement. If I remember correctly before the 700 was introduced the 242/252/260 were listed under the production tab as the entry level there... then the 700 displaced them. There were also the workcenter versions of the 242/252/260 without the fiery rip that were office copiers. I don't put much stock in one designation or another for the same machine - it's still the machine it is.

If your business is depending on the flatter less glossy toner, that could be a good argument to upgrade to the 700. Or maybe there aren't any 260s available any more.

 

[xfactor printing]

I have a color 550. We have had nothing but problems since day one. It has been in my shop for a year we just did a TSG (total satis. guarantee) on it and the new one is worse than our old one. Both machines have bad banding on cover stock, toner will not stick on coated stock, locks up all the time, and bypass feeding/paper accepting issues to name just a few things.

P.S. is the banding on cover stock cross direction? Are you able to run 80# cover ok? 100# cover? Or no to both?
Also for toner not sticking to coated - what is the coated stock? Xerox supreme gloss is the same as kromekote as far as I can tell - very smooth - and xerox runs 550 samples on that without issue - can't scratch the toner off with my fingernail.

 

[annabanna]

I use 100# Xerox supreme gloss cover 270gsm the machines spec is 300gsm. Xerox did prints in NY at their R/D and it failed for them to. My 242 ran 130# gloss all day with no issue.

 

[Milo Wilson]

The 550 is a lower end machine than the 700. I believe all the color variation issues were ironed out for the 700 after the software upgrades.