What is the difference between a 1988 vs. 1991 Heidelberg SM102 FP+L?

[Sean2017]

Hi guys,

I'm new to this forum and would like to ask for your experienced opinion.

Our main jobs are normally CMYK + overprint varnish. We currently do the varnish offline and we are now thinking to make our process more efficient by acquiring a 5 color heidelberg sm102 with coater.

What is the main difference between a 1988 vs. 1991 Heidelberg SM102 FP+L? There seems to be quite a price difference which makes us wonder if there's a significant feature change.

Also, would a CD102 we worth the extra money if we usually print on claycoated boards 15 and 18 caliper thickness.


Thanks in advance for your advice and opinions

Regards,

Sean

 

[junker1984]

The two biggest differences, Sean, are that the '91 will be equipped with CPTronics and a simplified perfecting/inline changeover. Keep in mind that the price difference may not be reflected solely on that, but also total impression count and general condition of the machine.

 

[turbotom1052]

i would consider a CD well worth the additional money over a Speedmaster. As a matter of fact Id almost consider it a MUST if you want to print on anything over .010 thickness. The Cd will allow for quicker makeready on heavy stock, as you won't have to chase down the marking problems associated with a regualr Speedmaster. Your jobs will print much cleaner, and will make for happier press crews. The only downside I can think of for a CD, and the downside is one of the biggest upsides ,is that the CD will require more effort to clean impression cylinders, as they are double diameter, but if you get the automatic impression cyclinder washup option, then that negates the downside.

 

[Sean2017]

The two biggest differences, Sean, are that the '91 will be equipped with CPTronics and a simplified perfecting/inline changeover. Keep in mind that the price difference may not be reflected solely on that, but also total impression count and general condition of the machine.

Hi junker1984, thank you for your reply. The CPTronics is the console? I attached a sample picture. So a 1989 model does not come with this and the 1991 does? I was told by a dealer that these are expensive maintenance wise because when the mother board dies, it will cost well over $2,000 per board for parts alone. Is this true? From what I understand, The CPTronic makes ink adjustment easy with a push of a button? What do you mean by simplified perfecting/inline changeover? Yes, I understand that the price difference will be from many factors other than just this. Thanks again.

 

[Sean2017]

i would consider a CD well worth the additional money over a Speedmaster. As a matter of fact Id almost consider it a MUST if you want to print on anything over .010 thickness. The Cd will allow for quicker makeready on heavy stock, as you won't have to chase down the marking problems associated with a regualr Speedmaster. Your jobs will print much cleaner, and will make for happier press crews. The only downside I can think of for a CD, and the downside is one of the biggest upsides ,is that the CD will require more effort to clean impression cylinders, as they are double diameter, but if you get the automatic impression cyclinder washup option, then that negates the downside.

Hi turbotom1052, thank you for your reply. I see your point with choosing a CD over SM. Would you know if a 1989 CD that says CPC1-02 with Ink and register remote control be equivalent to having CPTronics?

 

[junker1984]

Hi junker1984, thank you for your reply. The CPTronics is the console? I attached a sample picture. So a 1989 model does not come with this and the 1991 does? I was told by a dealer that these are expensive maintenance wise because when the mother board dies, it will cost well over $2,000 per board for parts alone. Is this true? From what I understand, The CPTronic makes ink adjustment easy with a push of a button? What do you mean by simplified perfecting/inline changeover? Yes, I understand that the price difference will be from many factors other than just this. Thanks again.

You mentioned in your first post, you were comparing a 1988 to a 1991. Now you mention 1989. '89's will be equipped with CPTronics, but will not have the many design changes seen in 1990. Yes, failure of electronic components in a CPTronic machine can be very expensive, even far more than your dealer mentioned. As to the simplified perfecting changeover procedure, what I refer to is the amount of time it takes to changeover the machine to perfecting or back to inline (straight printing). Numerous mechanical and electrical changes were made to the reversing drum and storage drum to make changeover quicker and easier.

 

[junker1984]

In your picture, the CPTronics console is the one on the far right with the LCD display. The CPC console controls functions relative to ink zones, fountain roller sweep and lateral/circumferential register movements. CPTronic controls all other functions, too numerous to explain in forum.

 

[aqazi81]

As others said, Better look for a CD than SM. In my opinion if a press of 1988 is mechanically and electrically in good shape than a press of 1991, my choice would be 1988 press.
Earlier models of CP Tronics are not as automated as you might think, but a press with good mechanical and electrical condition will be a better choice.

 

[Sean2017]

You mentioned in your first post, you were comparing a 1988 to a 1991. Now you mention 1989. '89's will be equipped with CPTronics, but will not have the many design changes seen in 1990. Yes, failure of electronic components in a CPTronic machine can be very expensive, even far more than your dealer mentioned. As to the simplified perfecting changeover procedure, what I refer to is the amount of time it takes to changeover the machine to perfecting or back to inline (straight printing). Numerous mechanical and electrical changes were made to the reversing drum and storage drum to make changeover quicker and easier.

Ok, looks like we should be looking at a 90's model to experience a significant upgrade. Now my question is if we should be considering a machine with or without a coater if we usually run 4 colors + overprint varnish on caliper 15 claycoated paper. Is there a significant advantage in having a coater for this kind of job or using a 5th unit for the overprint varnish do as good? Can you tell the difference of a job done with a coater or does the coater just make the drying time faster? If we use overprint varnish on the 5th unit, will we need to stack the printed paper vertically to prevent it from turning into a whole big block from sticking together? Or will just the right amount of varnish and spray powder combination be able to handle that issue so no need to stack the printed paper vertically? Thanks.

 

[junker1984]

You should really consider a press with inline aqueous coating. With hot air knives and proper extraction of moisture laden air, meaning extraction and venting prescribed by mfr, drying time is not an issue, stacking is not needed and turnaround time to finishing is greatly reduced.

 

[aqazi81]

My choice would be a 5+Coater press. You always have an option of 5th color.
Inline aqueous coating dries quicker and doesn't get yellow over time. Easier to run and manage then OP varnish which gets yellow over time and higher risk of set off / blocking.

 

[Abhi]

Coater is the way to go. Having a coating unit and an additional 5th unit will always help.

 

[Emna Sophia]

turbotom1052, thank you for your answer. I see your point with picking a CD over SM. Would you know whether a 1989 CD that says CPC1-02 with Ink and enlist remote control be proportionate to having CPTronics...!!!!

 

[junker1984]

An '89 CD will very likely have CPTronics, but but very little automation. First generation, and very short lived at that. I only saw one CD with swing gripper infeed, so given the year of manufacture, and should you be willing to purchase such a bare bones CD, be sure it is equipped with swing gripper infeed and not register drum infeed. Needless to remind you, Emna, PRINT TEST!

 

[aqazi81]

turbotom1052, thank you for your answer. I see your point with picking a CD over SM. Would you know whether a 1989 CD that says CPC1-02 with Ink and enlist remote control be proportionate to having CPTronics...!!!!

Yes there are advantages for the operator like, control of printing units impression on/off, print pressure adjustment (not on the earlier models), Ink ductor On/Off, Dampening Unit Control, Sheet Counters, control of compressors, Front Lay Height and Margin adjustments and also diagnostics of electronic issues etc.

 

[alibryan]

Probably the most important part of the info given about the 'CPC1-02 with ink' is the mention of ink control. Ink key control is the most important feature a console has to offer and it's also the option that gets used the most when the press is in production. In other words, you don't want to buy a press that's without it.

Hard to believe but I've actually seen circa 2000 SM presses with CPCs that don't have the ink key control feature on the console.

 

[wiseguy]

The main difference is that post Drupa 90 you have the new blanket washers that actually clean the blankets automatically, the older ones din´t.
The other difference is that the feed drum was changed to a swing gripper.
The output is vastly larger on the later version.

 

[Abhi]

The main difference is that post Drupa 90 you have the new blanket washers that actually clean the blankets automatically, the older ones din´t.
The other difference is that the feed drum was changed to a swing gripper.
The output is vastly larger on the later version.

Probably that's why I see the blanket washers missing mostly