Water Dampening Issue on Brand New(used 18,000 Impressions) Printmaster

[ExpertVisual]

So we just got this brand new press that doesn't even look like ink has been laid on it. We printed 2 jobs just fine when the Jim & Mike the Heidelberg Maitenence men were here from CT & MA.

Anyways water is going everywhere..bottom line. Water is dripping into the ink tray (below the rollers on the Front Head PU1). On the plate is much moisture every time & so much so that the ink doesn't stick onto the plate (MegaPRO 8 mil Poly plates).

Odd thing is we still have our ol' trusty Quickmaster46 so we know nothing is wrong w/ the plates or it's chemistry needing change etc. We've tried loading the plate into the new press but not printing on it...just letting it Idle for about a minute then ejecting it & placing it in the old quickmaster. Works just fine on the old press so it's not getting ruined on inserting into the new printmaster. Only after printing on the plate on the new press does it get ruined & won't work on the old press either.

We've tried a few different fountain mixes:
1) 8 oz Alcohol 4 oz Plate Concentrate(pink stuff) & distilled.
2) 2 oz Alcohol 4 oz p. & water
3) NO Alcohol 4 oz plate c. 2 oz Etch, & water

Like I said when the Installers were here we ran 2 jobs 1 plain black & a 2 color 5,000 Envelopes & everything looked great.

We attempted changing the packing & blankets.
We tried placing excessive ink on the rollers. Still no difference.

It's almost defintely a water/dampening unit issue in my mind.
What's the fix? Thanks.

 

[turbotom1052]

not familiar with printmaster but my first thought would be to check that pan roller is engaged to metering roller and squeezing out excess water so that your just metering a thin film. If the press printed fine when you had it installed why would you go changing stuff like blanket packing???

 

[STW100]

Sounds like some sort of contamination! Does the 2nd unit run ok? Make sure the wtr form on PU-1 is a harder roller! I know you said it was new but water in the ink train is a sign of contamination! Use a deep cleaning paste, calcium rinse, then wipe off wash-up blade, install wash-up and do a rince w/50/50 mix warm water & white vinegar. keep rincing until mix on rollers stays clear (not foggy) remove wash-up tray and look at blade. Is there alot of white milky color? If yes, contamination! If you like give me a call.
Stan IPS,llc. 720-285-9485

 

[ExpertVisual]

Thanks turbotom1052 & STW100,
The blanket did need changed after sitting for 3 years...even the maintenance guy advised that. I did change it back after the prob. started occurring. Unfortunately, the issue remained. The baffling thing is that we've checked the ink strips from form to plate & they couldn't be any better. It's incredible..they look terrific. The water however, not so much. Heavy, quarter-size drops on the pan roller & the ink on that roller seems to fades rather quickly + something else I noticed is underneath the blanket is wet both sides circumferentially & so is the packing underneath.. Even on the lowest setting (1) the water explosion happens. My boss can't believe it either! Jim suggested to ink up & down on (4) then to run the water @ (2) on PU-1 & (3) on PU-2. Stan, I did try the back head yesterday although there wasn't much to that image however there was a small spot where the image was missing (as what was happening on the front head). It worked fine when the guys were here. I will try PU-2 first thing Mon. morning.

On PU-1 some of the image comes in actually pretty well but there are just random spots (mostly on the far side if you were looking from the control-board side of the press). Still the image doesn't show up b/c of the excessive water ruining it. There definitely shouldn't be water in the ink tray that is meant to catch ink from falling to the delivery side of the press. Yet, that is filled w/ water at times.

I'm very careful to make sure everything is overly clean in all I do. I'm able to wear nice clothes to work everyday without an apron & stay ink-free. I make sure the ink blades are spotless after EVERY job unless we're "pressed" to meet deadlines. I've only printed for 2 years & still quite inexperienced being just 23 yrs old & always seeking answers to get better...it's a fun job & I love quality printing!

Clean Up procedure:
First I let the blade take w/e ink it will off w/ off-set washup. Next, when most of the ink has been taken off, I take a decent amount of Febo Clean 2000, apply that to the rollers, let that go for a few minutes. Take that off w/ blade & off-set washup & then remove + wipe the blade off. Then after that (or during cleaning the blade off) use Deglazer let that roll for a while. Then wash that up as well w/blade & off-set washup. 9x out of 10 it's sparkly clean at this point. & then clean the blade & make sure no ink is on the blade..

I don't believe I recall any white milky color after my clean up.

At first we thought it was me just leaving the blades in while I was printing. b/c I was able to do this w/ the quickmaster but not so w/ the printmaster even with them disengaged still got ink on it. Unfortunately that wasn't the prob. All suggestions welcome!

 

[STW100]

you will only notice milky color on the blade after rinsing with vinegar/water mix! If there is alot of milky color, repeat your deep cleaning again! Febo 10-15 min & rince with press wash, calcium rince 3-5min & rince with press wash, remove wash-up blade & wipe clean & again vinegar/warm water mix rinse. Is there alot of milky color? You said the press was stored for 3yrs? We don't know how well the rollers were cleaned before this. Poss you first couple of runs & wash-ups penitrated to somthing left behind? Sounds like the water pan rlr has issues. I would suggest removing damp rollers & hand scrubbing pan roller with a good scrubbing agent. I know either comet or A-jax works, 1 will & the other won't. I just don't remember which one does. Maybe someone else reading this can remind me. Sorry I do suffer from PART TIMERS! Again you are welcome to call me, I would much rather talk that type. Stan 720-285-9485

 

[William Taylor]

If the other unit prints ok then it sounds to me like you have a roller pressure way out somewhere or maybe a faulty or mis-aligned pan roller sensor. If it is a Printmaster then you probably have the Baldwin unit for your damping solution and circulation. Check to see if its not draining quick enough back into the tank. There is an adjusting screw on the top of the tank next to the hoses. I had a similar issue on my SM74 (same press basically) and thats all it was. I had water pouring everywhere.
Double check your damping system roller pressures. It doesn't matter a hoot if the form rollers to plate settings are good if another roller is out as you can't tell by looking at the ink stripe on the forms.
Remember to set the rollers with the intermediate roller engaged and the vario (if you have it) disengaged.
Check the bearings on the end of the rollers for wear and that they are locked into place when the rollers are in and there is no movement.
If the second unit prints fine then look to see if there is anything different about it and how it operates on the run.
If the press has only 18000 imp then there shouldn't be anything wrong with the rollers.
Do you ink the dampers up as part of the initial ink up process?

 

[ExpertVisual]

PU-2 seems to be working just fine! Guess it's just the front head (PU-1).

 

[ExpertVisual]

Ehh... spoke too soon. 1st job printed just fine (1000 11x17 black) 2nd job: same issue on front head. Ink not sticking to plate in various spots. Most of the image did print just the bottom right was not there. Thanks for any help Maintenance guy will be in Tues or Wed.

 

[STW100]

OK! good luck! Just a note for the future. I am an independant service company for the QM46/PM46 press line. I was with HUSA for 21yrs. I sell some new & almost anything used for you presses. I also am a Bottcher distributor for the rollers & roller care products. Stan Intermountain Press Service,llc. 720-285-9485

 

[William Taylor]

PU-2 seems to be working just fine! Guess it's just the front head (PU-1).

I am a little confused. Is your press a printmaster QM, GTO or PM. The Printmaster name covers a few completely different Heidelberg Presses. In Canada the Printmaster is a restricted Speedmaster. If your press is the QM (Quickmaster) then i'm not too familiar with the damping though I did run a QM DI for a few years.

 

[ExpertVisual]

It's a Printmaster QM-46. Our old presses were Quickmaster QM-46's...We got some Silver-Wet today I'm getting ready to try out to see if that makes a difference.

 

[ExpertVisual]

Thanks Stan, I'll be sure to keep you in mind.

 

[ExpertVisual]

I called the Maintenance guy & told him to don't bother coming... I fixed the problem. We were so focused on figuring what the prob. was on the press that it wasn't even a press prob. It was the chemicals on the plate maker!!! The Activator was too low in it's bottle. Sorry to drive you guys all nuts trying to find the answer but it goes to show what a great community this is if I have any other future issues. DUH!! Thanks guys... The weirdest thing is it would print some plates just fine! That's what really got me b/c I just ruled the platemaker out w/o checking the chemicals. Lesson learned. Maintenance guy saved a 6 hr trip! uggg! relief. yipee

 

[STW100]

Thanks for the up-date! Im glad everything is workig well now. My web-site is coming along slowly but you can see the all the information. I don't have the parts pages (ie part #'s & pricing) yet but there are the basics.
IPSQM46.com

 

[William Taylor]

Glad to hear you got to the root of the problem. It doesn't matter how silly the result is as we have all been there before!!!
Good luck and happy printing.

 

[plotter]

your silly problem as you say could be the answer for someone elses nightmare. Thanks for posting the answer in case anyone else has similiar problems. and good luck on your new press

 

[swifty]

So how did you make out?