Uncoated Papers drying problems

Discussion in 'Offset Papers & Stocks' started by gerrym, Apr 8, 2008.

  1. gerrym

    gerrym New Member

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    Hi Guys,
    New here and just wondereing if anyone has recently noticed problems with ink drying on uncoated stocks ie. paper and boards 130/300 as we print a large amount of annual reports for both perfect binding and saddle stitching. Recently the jobs are not drying for a number of days and this is causing us a lot of problems, we are using hostmann ink printing on a 74 cd. The paper is made by UPM. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
     
  2. ukprinter

    ukprinter New Member

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    hi gerry

    is the paper your using Laser paper or just normal uncoated bond paper?
    i have always been told that (forlaser at least) there is a different type of ink you should use in order for it to dry. We used to rarley run uncoated stock for letter heads mainly and found the smae problem, but we didnt do anything about it. i will try to find out more info abou the ink.

    i assume if your using hostman ink your dealing with ultrachem, try speaking to the rep he should know about it.

    just out of intret do you sometimes get gohsting of ink in the background when running uncoated?
     
  3. Sparky

    Sparky Member

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    You wouldn't by chance be using Toyo Inks would you?

    It has become a clear known fact that they have been screwing with the ink formulas without letting anyone know.

    We too have had a rash of drying issues on our 34DI using the Aqueless inks.
    Several months ago I could stack up to 800-1000 sheet of medium coverage ink on 12 x 18 70# Accent Opaque and let it dry for a couple of hours and run the back-up side without any offset issues at all.

    Now I have to limit my stacks to 250-400 depending on coverage, increase my powder double what I used to (from a setting of 28 up to 46 out of a 100) and usually let it sit over night before thinking of backing up.

    And I have heard from other printers also that inks are not drying as they used to.

    So you're not alone
     
  4. Meny

    Meny Senior Member

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    Ink problems

    Hi Guys

    Inks do change and no matter if it is Toyo , Hosstman , K+E or any other ink.
    If it will not dry well , you should check the dampening solution - it has alot to do with drying the ink. The water conditions needed today are different then years ago,
    You should set your water right and your ink will dry better - this can make a very big change.
    contact me for details
    info@printsup.co.uk
     
  5. HeidelbergMan13

    HeidelbergMan13 Member

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    lol yea i could see where that might be a problem...i run allot of A.R. on offset and use superior ink never has it taken more than 24 hours to dry..
     
  6. 4 color GTO

    4 color GTO Member

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    I swear by Grapho dryer!
     
  7. dpearson

    dpearson Member

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    Have you tried using offset inks? These inks are designed to sit more atop the sheet while drying faster. Flint Bio-Supreme? Or adding dryer to your inks? Just ran a 20k run today with medium process coverage as well as a pms185 Solid on 70lb Husky; No traying, just stabbed it @5k and sent it back to be turned. Immediate back up and all..no scuffing or offset. Try to differentiate inks to stock. I.E. 24/7 for coated or dulls, and an offset friendly ink for offset stocks. Using a heide, set your sparay @ 10 for your first pass, and kick it up to 15 for the second pass, should be fine. Hope this helps
     
  8. jennyhicks

    jennyhicks New Member

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  9. metalfabsection

    metalfabsection Senior Member

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    It has become a clear known fact that they have been screwing with the ink formulas without letting anyone know.

    yeah we use Toyo ink too...run with solid color we have to wait until 2@3 pile before remove the paper to other pallet for die-cutting process.powder up to 450. could u plz tell more about how toyo screwing with the ink formula???is that mean we pay more for low quality ink?
     
  10. cityhunter

    cityhunter New Member

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    Guys,
    i agree with Meny have your water balance check, hardness of water tap water 680-720 , right pH 4.5-5.5,
    conductivity of 1000-1200 , the density of ink, or maybe use too much compound as additive
     
  11. prossdaddy

    prossdaddy New Member

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    I too have recently had trouble over the last couple months with drying issues. Inks not curring even after a week of sitting. Hostman and Sun inks both, running on Heidelberg 10 col CD and 10 Col Perfector. I am interested to hearing more about the fountain solution possibility.
     
  12. gazman

    gazman Senior Member

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    alot of printers are having issues with hostman inks not drying in australia. Try DIC Fusion G ink or DIC Diamond inks i have had no problems with these on bond paper.
     
  13. dannyboy

    dannyboy Member

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    Good to hear other people are seeing what we see at our shop. We use Hostman Inkredible series process inks. They are all stay open inks, which means they don't dry worth a damn on uncoated stocks. We reduced our etch and the sub to below manufacturer recommendations to get conductivity down and the ph to about4.5. This helps with the drying issues and the ink water balance is a bit more stable too. All the ink companies feel that press operators are lazy and don't want to wash up units, so they are pushing these stay open inks.They are taking out too much drier and waxes in order to save money. You end up getting unfinished ink.
     
  14. RichardK

    RichardK Senior Member

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    FWIW...

    Never found an ink yet that dries equally well on coated/uncoated as well as staying open in the duct overnight. We used to run two sets of process inks. One for coated, one for uncoated.

    These days we make do with TOYO Hy Unity, occasionally sealing inline with either water based (infrequent) or oilbased satin sealer - sealing only for products that may show ink migration when trimming or scuffing when either folded or bound.

    We use 2in1 fount and to date I can say it's the best ink/fount combination for all round use we've ever used.

    The worst offenders in the drying time stakes are designers who think it's cool to lay a 100% solid on the reverse of letterheadings.
     
  15. timc

    timc Senior Member

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    you may need a drier additive to help Some papers have latex added to the surface This will cause problems with drying X & Y good Grapho also
    Hard case try Cobalt
     
  16. turbotom1052

    turbotom1052 Senior Member

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    drying problems

    time after time ive seen jobs run on uncoated stocks that were run with too much ink. i believe that in the ink industries quest to maximize profits inks are being manufactured with less pigment thus reducing the overall strenghth of the ink. to arrive at the desirable color more in must be run. this brings on a multitude of problems in addition to drying issues. any given sheet of paper can only take so much ink before the process becomes compromised!!!!
     
  17. timc

    timc Senior Member

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    if all else fails try foil inks Dry really hard Just needs more time Or try sealing with a hard dry sealer or a duct coating if you have IR
     
  18. steveo

    steveo Senior Member

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    also agree with the water being very important , can you ask your ink supplier to make you a high rub ink? , they just put more wax in it , also if you can get your hands on some liquid cobalt , ( drying stimulator for the water tanks) do it...it helps and I think superior sells it....
    Steve
     
  19. wiseguy

    wiseguy Member

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    If you put liquid drier into the dampening it´s recommended to use it only in the last unit which means that you need separate water tanks. At least it was so when I used it, maybe 30 years ago. Now we use a H&S that dries in the press so we need to clean up every evening. But on the other hand there is no issues with drying or setoff yuo dont see any marks at all on the impression cylinder.
     

  20. steveo

    steveo Senior Member

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    Dont have any H&S ink experience but Toyo made an ink formulated for uncoated papers way back when I worked for them , just cant remember what series it was....but Toyo and Superior both make a good process set that runs on just about anything , but if its a smooth finish offset paper ya gotta cya and add some drying stimulator or like I said the liquid cobalt always helped when I used it. Another thing Ive tried is using my airknives in the dryer , that seemed to help also. I remember a book printer we had as a customer when I worked for Toyo and they printed a lot of matt , patina , doeskin type stocks so we made a set with extra wax ( polytelflon) and extra drier , then they would complain when it would dry on the rollers after they asked us to up the wax percentage...go figure....
     
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