Unbeatable Ryobi 3302 toning.

[The01Printer]

I had that same issue for a long time on a multi with t-head and one day had to take the front form roller out of the t-head and had to run a job with the one form roller and WALLAH the stripe was gone! From that day on I ran one roller unless I had a big solid and it didn't show up much at all then because the solid hid it. It ran just fine on most jobs even with small to medium solids with the one form roller! When I did have to use both after that, I found that if I ran the ink as tacky as possible and made sure I didn't run heavy on the ink it wasn't a problem! Hope this helps! It was a GREAT day for me when I discovered it!

 

[lantz_xvx]

Thanks for the offer, Don, but I actually already have all those things. Unfortunately, none of that really helps in resolving this issue. I've really gone through all the pressures so many times. We also have an AB Dick 360 at the shop with Crestlines, and my co-worker who runs that is running the same plates made the same way, same ink, same fountain solution. Only he's been mixing his fountain solution 2oz of total chrome free and the rest water, I believe his bottle is 32oz. I generally do 1oz of total chrome free in a 28oz bottle. Maybe I need to up the fountain solution? Really can't think of anything else.

The01Printer, that sounds like a pretty handy trick if worse comes to worst, but part of the appeal of that Ryobi is just how much ink it can lay down. I'd rather not run with fewer form rollers unless things get really desperate. I'll try it though for the sake of experimentation and see what the result is.

 

[The01Printer]

Give it a try, I was amazed at how well it actually worked with one roller. I fought with that issue for several years and never found a solution. I am retired after 25 yrs in the biz! I miss it sometimes, but then I get over it by going fishing on a ride on my motorcycle! : ) Good luck and if you do find the solution I sure would like to know even still! I think it is just an inherit problem of a small press from when the roller makes its revolution to ink back up. It was a just an old multi 1250 but I could make that thing do miracles. I did a lot of political stuff and printed a ton of hand fans on 16pt dull with some heavy coverage!

 

[lantz_xvx]

Hey everyone. Yesterday I ran some deglazer through everything and cleaned up again, just in case there was any nasty stuff still in there from ages ago. I inked up with yellow again to go back through pressures, but something I realized is that the roller train isn't really spinning properly when the press is in neutral. They seem sluggish. I made sure that all the rollers were seated properly but didn't have time to figure it out before I had to leave for an appointment in the afternoon. When I drop the press into ink, it seems like everything is normal, but I'm concerned that something else is going on that may or may not be related to the toning.

Did I mess up the form to oscillator adjustment and now things are kind of binding? Something's up; for example, I couldn't get the top distributor roller to spin normally on that oscillator roller, no matter how much or how little pressure I put down to adjust the stripe to its normal 1/8". As I started taking out rollers, it looked like the same thing was happening elsewhere as well, so I don't know where to start to track down the problem.

Any thoughts?

 

[FFR428]

Silly question but are your night latches up or down? You want them both down to print on both heads. These are the 2 levers on each unit on the NOS. If for some reason they are up it'll be a problem. Pull both down/forward to engage the from rollers. 1 operates 2 forms the other 1 form. Same on both units.

 

[FFR428]

Also be sure you have the correct roller placement in the units. Several of them can be mixed up so use #1 unit as a guide as it's known the print ok. I think yes?

 

[lantz_xvx]

Hey FFR, yeah, all the form rollers are down. I'm assuming that if they were up, i.e. not engaged, I wouldn't be getting stripes from them, correct?

I'll check out the roller placement, it's possible some of the rollers on the back side of the press got switched, but I only took out three distributor rollers and one of them has different ends than the other two, which should be the same. The first unit has been printed on more recently but I haven't gone through and adjusted the pressures since the weather changed, so it needs some work too. Right now the press isn't really usable, which is unfortunate because although most of our work is digital at this point, there are a fair amount of two-color jobs coming in right now.

 

[frankiefleetfoot]

It may be a simple fix. Since I've been deglazing every week with liquid putz pomade and a warm water rinse my toning issues have drastically reduced. Making sure of proper stripes from form to plate and form to oscillator is all and good, but has never been so critical in anything I've run into. I make sure my rollers are pristine and eyeball my stripes and I'm off and running! Granted, a wiggling form roller is bad news, but many issues can be nipped before they become issues with a regular and consistent maintenance schedule. And when all else fails, for the coverage your running, just night latch that form roller! HA! ( sorry, I hate that fix)
I've been running these 3302s with crestlines for going on twenty years now and have found running to spec is a nice starting point, but finding the combination that your particular machine wants is key.

 

[frankiefleetfoot]

Oh, and the nikken mark x super concentrate fountain solution is the greatest invention ever! I run one and a half ounces with one ad a half ounces of APA................about the only thing I measure. LOL! happy printing!

 

[lantz_xvx]

So, thanks to Lloyd (FSA), who took the time to look at my press via FaceTime, he walked me through how to adjust the form to oscillator pressures, then gave me some recommended settings for the form to plate pressures, and everything works much better now...

BUT! I am dealing with horrendous plate wear, which is a problem I haven't always had but did have awhile back. It seems to be the worst on the operator side, and the plate is unusable after 100 impressions. I'm using polyester laser plates coming off an HP Laserjet 5100. No snarky comments about how I should use metal, please. I would love to, but it's not economical for our client base. I have printer friends who do incredible work with poly plates, so I know it doesn't have to be like this. Does anyone have the same press and a platemaking method that works better? Has anyone had luck with Silvermaster plates?

My next step is to make the plates on our Xerox C75 digital press and see how those run. I think that will isolate the problem to the platemaker, if they print well. If the same problem occurs, I guess it must be something else like plate pressure or the type of plates.

- Lantz

 

[ziggy33]

Watch out now FSA everyones gonna wanna facetime ya now haha. I never thought of that as a tool to help people with their press im gonna have to do that instead of phone calls from now on.

 

[lantz_xvx]

Hey everyone. So, here's the deal. The fuser on the platemaker must be busted. The plates coming off the Xerox C75 actually run really well. I've had to go back to prepping the plates with plate cleaner, otherwise they're horrible in the beginning. I stopped doing this because the plate cleaner was destroying my plates before, but this is obviously due to the toner not being fused to the plate properly. Once I started my old method of wiping the plates with plate cleaner and then fountain solution, I had a lot better luck. Zero plate wear. It's a bit of a pain to use the Xerox, more involved, but as a short term solution, it works.

 

[Gordy]

Check that there is no end play on the form rollers. When in "night latch" mode, they should not spin too freely. If so, tighten them up a bit. I think it's a 3mm Hex and 10mm socket to adjust it.

 

[jef]

settings

when you set your forms to the oscillators it will change your stripe to the plate.

 

[FFR428]

Lantz what size poly plates are you running? We run 13.250 x 19.250. I'll be happy to send you a few plates from our machine. Plates are laser imaged and run through a dev/stab bath then heat dried. I get a lot of impressions off them. Or if you know someone local try a few other their plates. This if you feel your plate is not being completely developed and is the problem. You can also hang one of your plates upside down and see if it happens on the other side. This would help confirm a plate issue. Just a though.

 

[FFR428]

Oh and very nice of FSA to take the help to help lantz. Good job! I never would have though of that.