TOYO Inks

[rolandman]

We have had the Exact Same Problem Luke on the Magenta unit but using one of Sun Chemicals inks, We used get stripping and youde see usually the roller after the Vibratorhad no ink in one spot, take that one roller out and Decalcify By hand pop it back in and it would be ok for a few more hours, i always thought it was an issue with the Found not Being Compatible but when we changed back to our old ink (stehlin) we had no such Problems, and in fact when we trialed another series of inks from Sun we didnt get this problem.

 

[luke]

We have only ever used Deionised water (RO water) on this machine.

I have a strict mantainance programme that I have always followed, there is zero white haze on any of the rollers.

I started off with this ink set the way I start with any new ink set.

Reduce ink keys and sweep significantly / Reduce fount dials significantly, and then slowly bring them up. until I reach the correct point.
Just enough fount to prevent scumming, / just enough ink to achieve density.

One thing I have noticed the magenta has an extremly thick body compared to several other ink sets I have used over the years.

It doesn't show up in the MSDS sheet but doe's anyone know if Toyo uses Talc in their ink sets ?

I will be changing the fount next week to another type. Will be interesting to see if the issue goes away.

 

[RichardK]

As a matter of interest, what press is affected ie a single press in multi-press environment?

If it's one press, have you tried switching magenta unit for cyan? Does the problem switch too?

What fount combination are you using, is alcohol involved or are you using a substitute?

I see you're in Oz - have you tried 2in1 Fount? It's manufactured in your neck of the woods I believe. We've had good results with it.

FYI we run a L626 TOYO Hy-Unity inks/2in1 fount at 10% and have never had stripping/roller blinding issues even when the tanks have been left for a month or so.

Your maintenance schedule seems rigorous so it doesn't leave much more - a dumb question now...are your rollers set to spec?

I see you're having the issue on a Roland - are the non-rubber inkers Rilsan or copper? I'm guessing the stripping is confined to the non-rubber inkers, is that so?

 

[rolandman]

On our Roland the Non Rubber are Rilsan, But Stripping Was on the Rubbers

 

[RichardK]

OK so if your rubber rollers are stripping that indicates (to me) that there is some contaminant deep in the roller pores. Is the problem confine to one roller or several? Have you tried a roller swap out with an unaffected unit - does the problem improve? Are the rollers shiny ie glazed - if so they may need deglazing or recovering.

A deep cleanse may be beneficial with a more 'searching' solvent.

 

[rolandman]

OK so if your rubber rollers are stripping that indicates (to me) that there is some contaminant deep in the roller pores. Is the problem confine to one roller or several? Have you tried a roller swap out with an unaffected unit - does the problem improve? Are the rollers shiny ie glazed - if so they may need deglazing or recovering.

A deep cleanse may be beneficial with a more 'searching' solvent.

When we had a Problem, it would usually confine itself to the Next Rubber after the Vibrator and the one After that but always one at a time, the first time i swapped it out with a brand spanking new Roller that helped but then still got the Same Problem on that roller albeit it was only after a couple of days but on the other roller i didnt swap it out with any other rollers just hand cleaned em. Il be honest Luke/Rich, i think your ink aint compatible with your Fount. just out of intrest are you using Alcohol or Alcohol Sub? Are you finding the Ink Abit dry on your impression cylinders when Cleaning them?

 

[RichardK]

Bit strange - only the second roller away from your ink duct. I'd expect to see stripping on the rilsans/coppers nearest the forme rollers.

You certain you've got proper set between rollers?

 

[rolandman]

thats the first thing i obviously thought of we actually went through and set that units rollers. but as soon as we wentback to tthe old ink it was absoluty fine, but as you suggeted earlier to luke, the sun chemical ink was much higher pigmented than the stehlin.

 

[RichardK]

That's pretty weird. Do you add anything to the ink at all - reducer for example. And if you do does that have any effect regarding the stripping?

 

[rolandman]

nope never have put anything in the ink other than anti oxidant

 

[RichardK]

I'd try a little (5% tops) gel tack reduce....it should help the ink 'flow' better.

 

[luke]

The roller that I see the light stripping on is the rislen bridging roller (between the water form and 1st form).
Richard.. I will switch the cyan magenta decks, if the problem continues when I change to another fount..

It is poosible that the current fount we use isn't compatible, it's designed to be specifically run with a special ink set. though with a small amount of IPA should run with any ink set. It contains zero alcohol replacements and we run it with 1.5% IPA on poly plates.

We are getting zero picture framing and there looks to be no semipolymerising of the ink on the rollers.

Regards, 2 in 1 ) I have used this before. Yes it works as it should be there are many downsides to this fount..

Richard why are you using the hyunity over the hyplus 100 ? did you compare both.. I see one is a full vegetable based vs a petroleum /soy base.

 

[RichardK]

Simply was never offered the Hyplus set. What downsides to 2in1 have you found? Our pressmen think it's a little too knife edge ie the tolerance isn't as much as with alcohol/ordinary fount combo.

I've never been a fan of bridge rollers, leastways the ones I have used have always given rise to emulsification issues. Admittedly we are going back a bit (1986 Planeta Variant 5 col)...God I feel old :-(

 

[luke]

Downsides to 2in1:
Does not meet any environmental guidelines let alone the ones we have set
Has caused the Baldwin unit to clog up, as 2in1 can have a habit of crystalising
It is corrosive to fount pan steels.. This won't show up straight away..
It is very expensive compared to running IPA free or low IPA
Poly plates don't last as long as they should.
and finally it stinks....

 

[RichardK]

Crystalising? Not experienced that.

Corrosion, neither.

Compared to our Varn/IPA combo it's slightly less expensive.

We don't use poly plates so can't really comment.

Stink..oh yes, not exactly Chanel No 5

 

[luke]

Changed fountain solution, and now running IPA free and the issue with the magenta hasen't happened yet. It will be interesting to see if continues to work, if so it would come down to the ink and fount not being compatible. I must say the hyplus 100 ink set seems much more settled with this new fount.

Richard, re the cyrstalisation and corrosion: There are shops running with out an issue, then there are shops that have had to discontinue due to these issues. You will see that it is fogra aproved but only if the PH is between a certain level, and the lower level of the PH that fogra has set is in the more alkaline range then other founts that have been fogra approved.

 

[RichardK]

Thanks for the feedback Luke. I'll keep an eye out for those issues.

Getting back to an earlier posting...we have noticed that drying times seem to be getting longer. As well as the ink being less rub/scuff resistant than when we first trialed it.

Just wondered if anyone else has the same view?

Oh, and can I be the first to wish all members a Merry Christmas? Even Tony the Tiger

but especially Andy Lander (for his patience), Paul (Komori Demonstrator) and Klecman for their help earlier this year.

 

[luke]

with the Hyplus 100 which is ment to be slower drying than the hyunity, we are currently seeing the following dry times (low - high coverage).
Gloss 130gsm - 350 gsm work and turn 5 - 10 mins
Silk/satin 130gsm - 350 gsm work and turn 10 - 20 mins
Uncoated papers work and turn 10 - 20 mins
Uncoated boards 15 -20 mins

If you are getting scuffing with the hyunity, give the hyplus 100 a run. Although its dry times are slower then the hyunity I am told that it drys to a much harder film then the hyunity

It seems with the ever decreasing profit margins, ink companies are utilizing cheaper and cheaper raw materials and also opting for manufacturing techniques that save $$ which in turn gives you and ink that is not as good as it should be.

 

[Davino]

This is an old thread perhaps fruitless to revive now, but Toyo Ink reportedly discontinued their matte UV ink formulations for offset 6-8 years ago, something which I have a relevant inquiry over now. There are cases where a matte ink is desired, whether aesthetically or in avoiding text glare on a stock that will not have a matte overprint varnish. The reasons given for dropping the matte ink from their offerings have been related to reportedly inconsistent and poor performance on some stocks. Can others who may have had experience with their matte formulations vet this? Additionally, if it was inconsistent performance on some stocks, would the lightly coated Arctic Volume White be among the style of stocks that saw issues with Toyo matte ink? Thanks in advance.

 

[Erik Nikkanen]

This is an old thread perhaps fruitless to revive now, but Toyo Ink reportedly discontinued their matte UV ink formulations for offset 6-8 years ago, something which I have a relevant inquiry over now. There are cases where a matte ink is desired, whether aesthetically or in avoiding text glare on a stock that will not have a matte overprint varnish. The reasons given for dropping the matte ink from their offerings have been related to reportedly inconsistent and poor performance on some stocks. Can others who may have had experience with their matte formulations vet this? Additionally, if it was inconsistent performance on some stocks, would the lightly coated Arctic Volume White be among the style of stocks that saw issues with Toyo matte ink? Thanks in advance.

Just curious.

You have stated the supplier often comments about poor performance or inconsistent performance of the type of ink you wanted. Can you comment on what you mean by poor performance? It can be so many things. Thanks.