Toning problems

We have a 3304H and we are both washing out and drying up at the same time. We have replaced the water metering rollers and are now trying different water solutions. Any ideas or suggestions to try???

WSP I saw in an old thread you were able to help someone if you could do the same I would appreciate it.

Thanks to any help anyone can be.

 

yig
I have lots of ideas, but question first. Type of plate your using, metal or ploy? Type of ink and fountain etch , and tell me your NOT using alcohol? How old are all the rollers? And do you have this problems on all units or just one?With the new metering roller is the film of water smooth and thin accoss it or do you get flooding or very heavy water on the ends? Lets start with that so i can help you with a possible solution.
FSA

 

Hi FSA,

Thanks for responding. We use Poly plates, we are using Mitsubishi plates. Our ink is from Press Color and it's Offset "Aurora". Fountain solutions we have tried are MP2000 and SLM-OD. Don't know the age of the rollers we bough the press used and just started running it about 6 weeks ago. We are having the problem on all 4 units and we are not using alcohol.

Thanks,
YIG

 

Sounds like a water system problem but until fsa's ?s answeed we just don't know

 

have you tried using metal plates at all, ive tried loads of poly plates, theyre ok but i just dont bother anymore i had 2 many problems. i have the 3302 version of this press and metal plates made alot of difference.

 

Agreed with plotter metal makes a huge difference

 

Do you regularly calcium rinse your rollers? Ive seen buildups of calcium cause problems like that. Your plate winds up running wet in some areas and dry in others.

 

Calcium bi carbonate is the press' sworn enemy!

 

Yig
Ploy plates are very touchie things to run, and being that your rollers are not new that is not helping. The SLM-OD is the correct etch to use but it has a self life a fresh jug will help but you need to run distilled water or R.O. water for ploy. I just install a 3304H and put all new rubber and even though the machine was old it print great, but that is with metal plates. Ploy plates need to be developed and there is another area of concern, if the plates are not developed proper that is the most likely the major issue with too wet.The fixer can also burn the plate, so chemistry in making the plate will make any press operator go crazy. The scumming is a good chance that your rollers are too hard from age and dragging the water off the plate. I bet your getting emulisifed ink too. If you have a desitometer you can read the back ground of the plate and the image, the higher the number the better, should be close to 2.00 on the back ground, and the image should be a black reading too but in the range of .72 - 1.00 .I believe you have a whole host of problem to fix it is not just one issue. Start with the plate room and and all the form rollers. Also metal out preforms ploy a 100 times over. Sorry for the bad news
FSA

 

We fixed it, we replace the water rollers along now it works fine. I used my poly plates, my ink and my etch on another press similar to mine and the job ran great, so I figured it had to be the rollers. As for metal to poly we've had 40" and 1/2 size presses and always used metal plates. This is the first time with poly and I must say other than metal plates lasting for longer runs I have no problem with the quality of poly and with this press it's short run anyways and if I need to make another set of plates it's cheaper to make 2 poly sets.

I thank everyone on here for their help and their feedback. Happy Friday and everyone have a great weekend!!!

YIG

 

Hi Yig. I was with the national distributor for almost 15 years and have now started my own service company. Advantage Press Services. The H system is a much more sensitive system compared to a dampener such as a Kompac or Crestline. Especially with Poly. But they can be run successfully with the proper care. First of all as you found, the rollers (water form and metering) being in good condition is a major importance. The metering roller (smooth roller) is the softest in derometer terms compared to any of the others. When we trained the technicians, we would explain these importances and procedures to pass on to their customers. Use only a clear, fast-drying metering roller cleaner (MRC) followed by a 50-50 fountain sol. water mix. whenever cleaning the metering roller. Clear is important because it doesn't contain any additives to create other issues. I have witnessed yellowish MRC's which contains oils. Not good. Now, the chrome osc. must remain hydrophilic. Meaning water should basically adhere to it. If you rotate the chrome osc. and you see the water run off as if it was a car that has been waxed. This means it has lost it's hydrophilic properties. If your metering roller is inking up, this is only because the chrome roller is taking on ink and transferring it to the metering roller. The only way to repair this state is to first use a reputable chrome roller cleaner on the chrome osc. Not True Blue, not Mother's Chrome cleaner, but a chrome cleaner formulated to chrome rollers. White, chalky chrome cleaner seems to work best. AB Dick used to have a great chrome cleaner. It may still be availible. Buff the chrome using the chrome roller cleaner. Preferrably using a cotton pad. This is recommended on any of the water rollers. Clean the chrome roller cleaner off with fountain sol. water mix. For the final step, you need a gum to apply to the chrome. Asphaltum gum is the best because of the acid in it. It looks like tabacco spit, but there is nothing like it. If none can be found, gum arabic will also work almost as well. Leave this on overnight or over the weekend. If you have never performed this routine, I would recommend doing every night for a week then once a week after. However, the metering roller should be cleaned thoroughly as needed and especially at the end of the day. The H system when performing correctly can print very nice work compared to the Kompac or Crestline, but it comes at the price of properly maintaining it and many have converted over due to the time maintaining the system requires. I hope this helps. It will add months to the life of your water rollers. Ryobi recommends replacement of the metering and water form at 6 month intervals but I have witnessed customers get 1 to 1 and 1/2 years performing the proper maintenance. Good Luck

 

Replacing rollers on a timely basis isn't good for small shops wasting a lot of money go by impressions instead after a X amount of impressins change them up I don't keep track because I can tell when I need new rollers by the way the press is running always keeps some on hand just in case