To buy or not to buy QMDI, and what to look for?

[mutti8000]

Hi

I own a small shop where the typical print run is about 500 - 3000 copies.
We currently got 2x CANON CLC3200 that are struggeling to keep up with the demand. Allthough i service the myslef, they are pretty expensive in toner and drums. We also got a 4 colour Man-Roland 29" 52x72cm press R204, but it's a all manual press with the only feature being the remote inking and regristration. So the press is heavy on man-hours and need a skilled pressman to get good quality.

So my situation are:
1: CLC3200 expensive per page and not 100% offset quality.
2: Roland 204 old "heavy" machine but super quality with a skilled pressman. not a machine for short runs.

I read a lot on the internet regarding the Heidelberg QM DI-4
Would a quickmaster suit my need and complement the CLC's and the Roland 204? (i need the Roland 204 for some longer print runs)
Is the old DI technology still holding up today?
What specifically to look for when inspecting?

Heidelberg i my country almost laughed at me when i asked them.
No one uses the DI technology anymore, let it go... it´s to expensive to maintain, it got problems with roller markings on the output etc. etc.
Keep away...
Do they know what they are talking about?

Hoping to get your input

Regards Øjvind.

 

[Mechanic]

If you Know to print (by you, I mean you personaly), and you already have a CTP to make plates, get a 4color offset with lots of automatisations, and then get rid of the rolland. Otherwise, get a Ryobi DI or a Presstek DI (its the same mashine). There are 2 formats availiable: 35x50 and 32x46, If you get the 35x50, you need to get 50x70 paper long grain, because all DIs print short grain, and the 35x50 prints landscape, The rest of the mashines print portrait, so there is no issue with the paper. The Presstek is a much better choice than the Heidelberg. And of course, once you get the DI , get rid of the rolland.

 

[mrheidelberg]

Hi

I own a small shop where the typical print run is about 500 - 3000 copies.
We currently got 2x CANON CLC3200 that are struggeling to keep up with the demand. Allthough i service the myslef, they are pretty expensive in toner and drums. We also got a 4 colour Man-Roland 29" 52x72cm press R204, but it's a all manual press with the only feature being the remote inking and regristration. So the press is heavy on man-hours and need a skilled pressman to get good quality.

So my situation are:
1: CLC3200 expensive per page and not 100% offset quality.
2: Roland 204 old "heavy" machine but super quality with a skilled pressman. not a machine for short runs.

I read a lot on the internet regarding the Heidelberg QM DI-4
Would a quickmaster suit my need and complement the CLC's and the Roland 204? (i need the Roland 204 for some longer print runs)
Is the old DI technology still holding up today?
What specifically to look for when inspecting?

Heidelberg i my country almost laughed at me when i asked them.
No one uses the DI technology anymore, let it go... it´s to expensive to maintain, it got problems with roller markings on the output etc. etc.
Keep away...
Do they know what they are talking about?

Hoping to get your input

Regards Øjvind.

Hi,

Welcome to the forum.

The Heidelberg QMDI is now very good value for money on the secondhand market and is an excellent buy for the sort of run lengths you are quoting.

Because Heidelberg stopped manufacturing the machine a few years ago, there are certain agencies and people who will try and talk you out of them, because they do not know enough about the machine.

A well maintained machine will produce virtually anything you require and is very versitile on paper running anything from NCR to (approx) 350g card and envelopes.

The QM DI was produced in 3 versions with the Classic being the oldest and cheapest option, then the Plus and then the Pro, i think generally the Plus gives the best value for money.

Where abouts in Europe are you ?

Hope this helps,

Regards.

 

[rossio]

Hi Øjvind,

can understand mr.heidelbergs opinion but for my opinion DI-era is over.
Look at the market, nobody give a dime for DI presses. Nearly new machines for 30.000 Euro
http://www.pressresale.com/offersli...1&typeid=102&search=1&word=Quickmaster&last=&

My situation was equal to yours, small printshop, low budget, but I watched the problems that collegues had with DI presses like Heidelberg
or KBA Carat. To buy a DI was no way for me. An important reason are DI-plates. Now only one producer, presstec.

Don´t no where you live, but you should know that a DI needs moderate temperatures by ca. 20°, otherwise you get problems.
Another point: who ensures software upgrades in future? Old shoes wont to be polished.

Replacing the Canon I would look at OCE, XEROX, HP Indigo Production devices min. 60ppm color and finishing devices like bookletmaker.
Multi office devices are not usefull for professionel production, to slow.

Depending on your budget for replacing the R204 I recommend to talk with Heidelberg for a SM 52 with Anicolor.
Times are optimal, cause all manufacturers got big problems and are happy to sell new machines.
So you can get optimal solutions for excellent conditions.

Hope I could help for a decision.

Rossio

 

[Mechanic]

There are TWO producers for DI plates, 3 if you count the crapy Heidelberg ones. Presstek and Vim

 

[mrheidelberg]

There are TWO producers for DI plates, 3 if you count the crapy Heidelberg ones. Presstek and Vim

The Heidelberg and the Presstek plates are the same material, produced from the same factory in the USA and then just have a different label.
The VIM plates are made in Israel, using a similar process but are subject to Presstek patent infringments and can only be sold in a few countries, that is before they are put out of business altogether.

 

[rossio]

The Heidelberg and the Presstek plates are the same material, produced from the same factory in the USA and then just have a different label.
The VIM plates are made in Israel, using a similar process but are subject to Presstek patent infringments and can only be sold in a few countries, that is before they are put out of business altogether.

VIM is not allowed to import its plates to US and Germany as I know.
The german dealer had to hand out all contracts, customer data, advertising material etc. to presstek. On dealers websites are all information about VIM deleted.

 

[Mechanic]

There are the Heidelberg Zaphira and the Heidelberg Kaleido plates. The Kaleido are made by Heidelberg and are crappy. Vim have entered the EU, that means Germany too. Plus they are nothing like the Presstek plates

 

[PressGo]

Heidelberg QM DI plates are Saphira only.

 

[PressGo]

Kodak also make some plates for the QM DI with a black surface, but these are to be avoided.

 

[PressGo]

Vim have entered the EU, that means Germany too.

What has that go to do with patent issues ??, if they carn't sell the plates ......

 

[rossio]

There are the Heidelberg Zaphira and the Heidelberg Kaleido plates. The Kaleido are made by Heidelberg and are crappy. Vim have entered the EU, that means Germany too. Plus they are nothing like the Presstek plates

Sorry, but Heidelberg is a manufacturer of print systems not of consumables.
Saphira is a brand for this. They even don´t mix colors etc.

Concerning the patent infringement:
A press release, dated 12.08.2009 in www.publish.de:

Presstek hatte Klage bei der ITC eingereicht, weil die »Di-R Waterless Processless Thermal Plate« aus dem Hause VIM die US-Patente von Presstek mit den Nummern 5,339,737 und 5,487,338 verletze. Außerdem verletze VIM Pressteks gesetzlich eingetragene Handelsmarke DI, die das Unternehmen seit 1992 hält.
In einem vergleichbaren Fall in Deutschland hatte das Landgericht Düsseldorf bereits im April geurteilt, dass die von VIM angebotenen Druckplatten Di-R-28, Di-R-36, Dp-R-28 und Dp-R-36 den deutschen Teil des europäischen Patents 0 580 393 B1 von Presstek definitiv verletzen. Der deutsche Händler Reinsch (Haan) wurde daraufhin angewiesen, sämtliche Verkäufe dieser Plattentypen einzustellen. Zudem musste der Händler sämtliche Werbe- und Verkaufsinformationen zu den VIM-Verkäufen an Presstek übermitteln, um einen etwaigen Schadenersatz berechnen zu können.

That means, that a Court in Duesseldorf in April has decided in the patent infringement, concerning the german part of the europeen patent, in favour of Presstec.

 

[Mechanic]

OK, the kaleido fell of the sky....
the press relase is quite resent, I wasnot aware of it. I talked to a Vim salesman 2 years ago and he told me , that they found a way arround the patend. Pitty though, because I was pleased with the plate performance.