Tints and iGen4

Hi, all:

I'm looking for some best practices around handling tints on a digital press. We have iGen4s in our shop, and we're having some issues with hitting and holding tints--device to device and run to run on the same device. Our original idea was to create named plates in the LUT for each Pantone value (i.e. 417_90; 417_85, etc.), but this option doesn't quite work out due to how InDesign names color swatches (it forces a percentage into the naming that cannot be added to the LUT, i.e. 417_85 85%). Using the CMYK breakdown of the Pantone doesn't always work because each press has its own personality with regard to how the CMYK breakdown outputs, so what we're trying to accomplish here is a way to "own" each of the tints so we can make device-specific adjustments.

It's worth noting here that we do NOT have any prepress ability in our shop, since this responsibilty is farmed out to another unit in the same company. We're supplied only with the print-ready PDF from our prepress group.

Any ideas/insights/offers are very much welcome!

Cheers,
David

 

Hi David,

This is a tough one that, IMO, I don't think will be resolved.

You have the spots set up the same for each device but due to the uniqueness of each iGen the color is not similar. I am wondering what the DeltaE difference is between the colors but since you don't have any prepress tools I am going to assume that you cannot read the DeltaE of the spot colors.

I can say that certain colors, when printed on different iGens, may be a closer match to each other than other colors. For example a PMS 202 vs. a PMS 290. That said, I don't think that you will be able to change the corporate colors to match what each iGen can reproduce similarly.

I thought that the iGen4s would have been closer to each other than what you are describing. (Assuming that you are calibrating and maintaining according to schedule.) What is Xerox saying?

Steve

 

hey there, Steve...

What's Xerox saying? "Just wait until the iGen 5 comes out!" LOL...just kidding...they've been great partners in trying to figure this out.

I should clarify that we're hitting the 100% values of the corporate colors just fine--but when we have to go to tints (i.e., a CMYK breakdown), things kind of fall apart or at the very least results are not repeatable. That's why we were looking to create tints in the LUT, but it seems that option is not feasible given the way InDesign wants to name new swatches. The other thing that bedevils us in this shop is that our client's acceptable range is quite small, but our range on the tints of some colors (specifically 417, 452, 5483, and 5507) is somewhere in the neighborhood of +3 DeltaE (i.e. visible to the naked eye).

So, blah. I was really hoping the install of iGen4 would resolve all my color management woes, but I guess that was a bit myopic. We are doing WAY better with the new machines--transparencies are no longer a problem; we hit 100% values of our corporate Pantones very well; we have much better repeatability from run to run; the two presses are closer to each other in terms of output than ever before; less maintenance means more uptime; etc. But the tints question just doesn't want to go away!

Last thing: We are sticklers for maintenance. We run daily CMT and maintenance in the morning, then every two hours throughout the course of the day.

Thanks!
-d-

 

Got it. You are in great shape.
3 DeltaE? I wish I could hold that.
Transparencies no problem? Are you running FreeFlow v8?

The tints, hmmm. The same CMYK value does not match from iGen to iGen, even if named as a spot color. I would have thought that the RIPs were changing the CMYK when going through a destination profile, but they are spot colors and being passed through unchanged. Hmmm, let me grind away on that for awhile.

 

Yes, we're running FreeFlow v8 which has resolved the transparency issues we were having.

And to your last point, our original idea was to name tints in the LUT, but there's an issue with how InDesign (which our prepress group uses) names the swatches--it forces a % sign in the name that can't be added to the LUT naming. Am I missing something, though? Is there a workaround? Because my understanding is that if we can name the color in the LUT, we can own it and control it better.

Thanks!
-d-

 

If you create the spot color in INDD from scratch and not based as a tint you can name it anything you want.

This is the only way to get the spot color tint name into the PDF for the RIP to 'see' it. The PDF only has the original 100% swatch name in the ink manager. The PDF does not name the spot color tints.

My question is how would the FF RIP the tints differently if they are based off the spot color editor. Interesting, I am going to test this later.

Anyway, I would create the color not as a tint but as a spot with the % of CMYK that the tint should be and name it something that the FF RIP will understand.

edit: I would to set the % tint value to the iGen CMYK breakdowns and not the Pantone/InDesign CMYK breakdowns.