The truth about the Imagepress

Discussion in 'Canon imagePRESS Digital Presses' started by Canonpress, Apr 21, 2011.

  1. Canonpress

    Canonpress New Member

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    Just consider this, all the customers that had the imagepress C1, 6000/7000 that I (personally) service are VERY unhappy with the performance. ! I believe the comments from the people above are definitely sales biased. The machine will run fine (new) but after a million or so copies the engine will start to fail. Real lengthy problems, sometimes it takes weeks to solve the fault. If you can afford the problems and down time, you'll definitely be impress/ed with the print quality.





    OMG , are you serious ! You'll be lucky if you get 10k between service .. Just ask anyone who runs the Imagepress equipment..
     
  2. Michael4

    Michael4 Senior Member

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    I get frequent wire replacements. i haven't had the need for any PM service or kits to be installed. I'm at about 140K impressions or 70K clicks worth of 13x19.

    I would go through less wire replacements but i need to run some stock at an increased transfer voltage. So I burn through them faster than normal.

    I can't say how it will run after a million impressions. I will surely post feedback when i get closer. I know the marking engines and boards were changed on the 6010's. I'm not employed by Canon so i haven't the 'behind the scenes' information you may have.

    The print quality is some of the best I have seen on a digital machine. better than Xerox and Konica in my opinion. It has a real tight toner dither and handles a variety of jobs quite well..
     
  3. xfactor printing

    xfactor printing Senior Member

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    If you don't mind my asking, how many c1s and 6000/7000 ballpark are you currently servicing around dallas?
    A million sounds quite high for a C1 with it's slow color speed... but for the 6000/7000 that's alarming.
     
  4. Michael4

    Michael4 Senior Member

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    I'll be up to a million before this year is up. Possibly even quite sooner.
    Hope thats not the case.
     
  5. Michael4

    Michael4 Senior Member

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    Over 200K now , no issues experienced yet. Prints spot-on to the day it was installed..
     
  6. Rmontague

    Rmontague New Member

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    My experience with TWO Canon 7000v

    We are into our second leased year (out of 5 yr lease -big mistake for this equipment) on our first Canon 7000v. Our volume is about 270,000 per month per machine... these machines are truly a nightmare in terms of quality. At ANY given day of the week one of our equipment is down.
    I admit that the technical skills of the technician are CRITICAL! Originally we got a great guy fixing our equipment, shortly this guy left our vendor and was replaced by another one.
    Here is a funny story... this 2nd techman would come in, and in 20 minutes was out the door (we later found he has been servicing his OWN equipment) After "LEGAL" complaints, Mr. Techman would come in and spend three to four hours, and our 7000v would run fine.
    Canon has been coming by trying to sell us the "New & Improved" 7000's. They built air-conditioning and air filters into the machine; also replaced a lot of the PLASTIC JAPANESE GEARS with metal gears. They are claiming longer up-time.
    We are so disappointed with these high-end Canon products that we lost faith in their products.
    We have been looking into Xerox, but they are SOOOOOO highly priced is unbelievable.
    Here is a hint... I asked Xerox that I personally wanted to by the iGen4 with my own cash and then lease it back to my company... they couldn't come up with a price... I figure I buy it, lease it and get 17% return on my investment.
    Xerox gave us some lease figures, which apparently they made up by rolling a dice. I asked them what's the interest I am paying? They couldn't answer.
    for now we gave up on that idea.
    We are looking into the new Minolta's 8000. Two years ago we got a new 6500. Awesome color quality... but would paper-jam ever three copies. Everyone and their mother come by to try to fix it and they couldn't. We sent it back after three month.
    If anyone out there has any experience with the new Canon 7010, I would love to hear from you.
    Thank you.
     
  7. Michael4

    Michael4 Senior Member

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    The Konica 6500 was a nightmare for everyone. I was able quickly swap out my 6500 for a 6501 , which ran great for many years.

    I'm running a Canon ImagePRESS 6010 now with minimal down time. My volumes are much lower than yours however. about 60-70k per month. The machine seems to need frequent Corona-Wire replacements, which is a quick service. Aside from that, i have been satisfied with my Canon so far. I have never ran the 6000-7000 series so I haven't any input there. The 6010 seems a great machine to me.

    Color on the Canon i think is the best out the other major digital machines. I able to hit most pantones as well as the full Gracol color spectrum.

    The cost of the Igen just doesn't seem to be worth it to me. It's a great machine, but doesn't seem any better in quality than the other digital press providers. And its tremendous size makes it quite a burden for our production center. Aside from that, we have terrible issues laminating and coating jobs from Xerox due to their obsessive amounts of fuser oil.

    If your through with Canon, I would recommend Konica Minolta for sure...
     
  8. Kevneto

    Kevneto New Member

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    Have had 2 Imagepress 7000's for about 4 years. we have about 10,000,000 A4 impressions on both machines. You are correct that they can be maintenance nightmares. We have service out 4-5 times a week since we run 100# gloss cover, 13 x 19 most of the time, so they take a beating.

    We are looking to replace them with 2 7010's. My research on the new machines is that their enhancements have made this a much better machine maintenance and quality wise. I have talked to print managers who had the 7000 and 7010 and they told me that their lives are much easier with the new machines. No perfect, but they don't see service as often as they did on the 7000.

    But, these machines are a mid level digital press. And while it seems canon has made improvements with color consistency, enviromentals and paper handling, it will never be a Igen, Nexpress or Indigo. It's just not that type of machine. We also have a nexpress and would get another if not for Kodak's major financial issues. Plus Canon is giving us a sweet deal.

    If you want to go with the 7010, I would suggest having your canon service train you on replacing wires, fuser rollers, drums, developer and doing some PM's. That is what we will be doing to increase our uptime.

    Just my experience.
     
  9. Michael4

    Michael4 Senior Member

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    It's been some time since I first wrote that reply. I Still feel its a great machine, and i have heard the horror stories of the original 6-7000 series. especially stories of the ITB cleaning web needing constant replacement. Canon had removed that web on the newer machines and replaced it with a brush. I rarely see my Canon Tech these days.

    I even feel the color is much better than an Igen, and image quality equal if not a bit better also. I don't think it stacks up so well against the Nexpress, and the Indigo would be a dream to have in my shop. I would love a 7500.
     
  10. Kevneto

    Kevneto New Member

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    Hi Michael,

    The ITB web was part of the 100k kit which we perform here. Yeah, it's kind of a drag that one has to replace it so much and I think the brush is a big improvement.

    I'm glad to hear that you are still happy with the machine. It seems Canon listened to their customers and made some good enhancements to the engine.

    We are a pretty hands on shop concerning maintenance with these machines. We have all the error codes and can troubleshoot a lot of issues before we call for service. But service is still here quite a lot. We run these machines in our large warehouse, which is difficult to climate control which I am sure adds to more issues, but we make it work.

    I think the 7010 will be a good mid level production machine, but it's not a machine you can run 24/7 like a IGen or Nexpress. I know sales people like to sell it like it is in that class, but it just can't take the pounding. One has to realize that the 7000/7010 is built to run about 100k-150k 13 x 19's a month. That's just what it is.

    I do love our Nexpress and it is quite a beast. But the bigger machines do require a fair bit of maintenance.We change out all the consumables and do all the PM's. The 200K PM takes about 5 hours and is pretty intensive. We try to keep the machine as clean as possible which enhances uptime. As far as maintenance on the big machines, I've heard IGEN 4 is the easiest, followed by Nexpress then Indigo. Just something to consider if you want to jump up to a bigger mavhine.

    Hope things keep going well with you!
     
  11. Neess

    Neess Senior Member

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    We got rid of our canon imagepress 7000 about 2 years ago, they caused way too much trouble. Often they shut themself down with a red light flashing and a fault code. Having the fiery rip to run them also ment alot of jobs being cancelled and alot of extra trouble figuring out how much of which jobs was printed.
     
  12. Jimmyha

    Jimmyha Member

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    Michael4, do you have Canon 6010 used for sales? pls give me your offer at jimmyha@goldencard.vn thanks
     
  13. Michael4

    Michael4 Senior Member

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    I havent any for sale. Sorry about that, I have only the one digital sheetfed machine, and one digital web.
     
  14. Jimmyha

    Jimmyha Member

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    I look for this. pls tell me if you know anyone have it for sales. Thanks advance
     
  15. Jimmyha

    Jimmyha Member

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    Hello,

    I have got offer from the dealer for 3 Canon Press.

    6000 # KATY003 Meters: Total = 2.2M Color = 1.8M B/W = 359K Installed Feb ‘09
    7000 # KTL0054 Meters: Total = 5.7M Color = 4.9M B/W = 804K Installed Mar ‘08
    7000 # KTL0054 Meters: Total = 2.6M Color = 2.0M B/W = 600K Installed Mar ‘08

    Could you pls give me comment on 3 machines above? How much I should pay for them?

    Does anybody can do mainternance service and installation there machine ?
     
  16. Michael4

    Michael4 Senior Member

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    They go for around 150K new. Use your best judgment for a used price, but i would be aiming for about half the price of a new unit, perhaps even less.

    The old 6 and 7000 need frequent ITB web replacements. The new 6010 and 7010 have had this part replaced with a cleaning brush that doesn't not need replacement. You will need to learn how to replace the web on the older models, you will also need to learn how to replace the fuser web, fuser roller, collecting roller. You also need to change developer and corona wires every so often..
     
  17. Jimmyha

    Jimmyha Member

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    Hi Michael4,

    Really thanks for your reply. you look like very clear about Canon digital Press. Can you give me your email? You can help making the file from IA or CRD or PSP convert to PDF then print? because we are trying to print by our making file but the color very poor but it print on the sample file of Canon is beautiful even print on plastic like PVC. So I beileive that the press 7000VP is more better than C1 right? Do you know Installation and setup the press?

    Here is we have another Digipress:

    2009 Canon Imagepress C7000VP
    4300 server (Creo)
    AB1 Saddle Finisher
    POD Deck A1
    Tab Feeding Attachment C1
    Booklet Trimmer C1
    Document insertion Unit C1

    How much do you think I should offer them?

    Many thanks Michael4.
    Best Regards
    Jimmy
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2012
  18. Michael4

    Michael4 Senior Member

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    The 7000VP is a much better machine than the C1, especialy for high volume shops. I have never installed a machine myself, I wont be much help to you in that area.

    The VP is much more expensive the the 7000, plus with the saddle sticher and the other addons. I'd have to do some research for pricing.

    E-mail: Mike_siecinski@yahoo.com
     
  19. OkiTech

    OkiTech Senior Member

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    Guys, a nice used 7000VP is about 30,000 to 40,000 here in USA depend on actual printcount and accessories installed - just give you an idea...
    I had never sold one - a little out of my league but I had offers from Banks/leasing companies in low 30th and had seen similar machines for sale on internet for nearly 40,000 but tuned-up, promised to be in working condition VS - when it comes from the leasing company it is usually:
    working - passing a copy or not working, AS-IS sale in any case, you don't get to complain about quality or anything in that nature...
     

  20. Rcreveli

    Rcreveli New Member

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    I'm new to the forum but definitely not a Canon shill. We run Xerox & Canon B&W and until recently were 100% NON-Canon Color. I've been in printing for about 15 years starting with an Alphagraphics and my experience with the CLC1000 & CLC 5000 soured me on Canon for many years. We've had our 6010 for about a year and are running around 100k a month. 90+% of that is 11x17 or larger. Investing in this machine is one of the best business decisions we've made. If anyone would like I can post the criteria and our vetting process but, it took us about 3-6 months and included multiple trials and double blind tests.

    While I know the Canon is a mid level machine, I have several customers and one broker who are blown away by the quality especially solids. We recently hired a new operator who came from an iGen 3 shop and can't get over what the canon can do.

    Feel free to ask anything you want I'll tell you the good and bad.

    Ray
     
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