The balance of ink and water(Understanding?)

[ims1985]

hi
I work in GTOZPS
and my question is about Alcolor dampning system
*what is the range between the catch up and much water on the plate?example(2%-5%)or more
*when connecting the dampning at (10% to 15%) to the plate it must get cleaned?
I need to understand this

 

[ims1985]

and the ink i think a small ink zone opening and largest ink fountain roller sweep
*is the best way at the start of the press?

*and what can cause a big range or small range for water-ink balance?

I know my questions look stupid but i am not very familiar with printing machine yet
I started to learn myself 4 months ago form the operating manual's and small
training videos for GTO 1988 and Printmaster GTO

and I appreciate your cooperation.

 

[thomasrostratus]

Each and every press is different in its own way. its a case of getting used to your own press to know where your water settings should be. Has anyone set your rollers and dampers up? If your rollers are incorrectly set you may be fighting a loosing battle. sometimes being left in the deep end is the best way to learn, as i discovered 10 years ago. best of luck. let us know some more.

 

[ims1985]

Thank thomasrostratus for helping
you are right about the difference between machines

but
I must know about Ink,rollers,dampening solution
to have a good balance

and these is what I find
*Dampening Solutions.pdf
*Rollers in Inking and Dampening Systems.pdf
*Ink Water Balance.pdf

I wish that help.

 

[Guest 82818-824]

A good indication of your damp is to look at the "sheen" on your plate when your dampers and inkers are on the plate. You should see a satin/eggshell type reflection from the plate. The sweep of your ink fountain roller is relevent to the image area to be inked.

 

[ims1985]

Thank for your help
i wish it was that easy.
i uploaded the PDF to help the other pressmen
because it helped me
and I'm now have print some jobs
and they are not bad

 

[ims1985]

hi all I still trying to get better quality
i use SunChemical (SUNFOUNT 340-H 340)
Dosage:2-4% / 8-12% Alcohol
IS this a good H?
-------------------------------
I have try it with 3 different ink type
it was not gives easy balance
I have catch up in the small area in front of the grippers I have to add more water to get rid of it

Any suggestions?

Thanks in Advance

 

[Guest 82818-824]

If you're prepared to do a lot of reading have a look on here http://wpc.ilatec.com/ there's a mountain of usable knowledge to go through. Save it onto your pc and go through it over and over again and it'll help.

 

[ims1985]

If you're prepared to do a lot of reading have a look on here http://wpc.ilatec.com/ there's a mountain of usable knowledge to go through. Save it onto your pc and go through it over and over again and it'll help.

Thanks for the link
but you did not get what I need I have to read about Ink,rollers,dampening solution,....... to understand how it work

I'm printshop owner I started in this field 2 years ago I have small 2-c Ryobi press (it print books and one or two color jops A3)
and I have polar 71 (cutter) and same small finishing Machines and i have 3 worker can work on them.
and I was looking to have 2C MS-52 but no pressman in me town has see it they are familiar with the 1-c GTO only.
so I was think the GTOZP-S will be ok with the pressman here.
I installed the Machines by myself
and I read the operating Manual and tested 7 GTO pressmen no one of them can move the paper from the feeder to delivery
so 6 month try to be work on it.
I printed 63 jops 2 of them was not ok but the rest is fine.
so I have to read to know more about what I'm deals with.

I still trying to get better quality
i use SunChemical (SUNFOUNT 340-H 340)
Dosage:2-4% / 8-12% Alcohol
IS this a good H?

 

[ims1985]

hi all I still trying to get better quality
i use SunChemical (SUNFOUNT 340-H 340)
Dosage:2-4% / 8-12% Alcohol

how do I know the good fountain solution?

 

[ims1985]

hi for all
this is what I have
most cases i can cheat it by add more water.

the dampning is connected.
when i connect the inking rollers it get worse?

Any idea what make this?

 

[Guest 82818-824]

Self taught printer!
Go through ALL your roller settings, my main concern is for your form rollers but you may as well do some good housekeeping at the same time and do the lot. Once you've done this check your fount solution mix.

 

[ims1985]

First thanks for helping me

1-roller settings checked ok.
2-fount solution mix checked ok.
3-PH level 5.4 ok.
3-tryed 2 ink types.
4-tryed 2 different palet types.

but i still have the Problem.

Any new ideas ?

 

[ims1985]

hi all
after what i tried i'm still stuck.

i use SunChemical
SUNFOUNT 340
H 340

*I need to try another fount solution work with Alcolor dampning system
what should i try?

*has the fount solution get Expired?how long?

 

[ims1985]

HI Again
I Spoked with SunChemical agent about if the fount solution has Expired day they Say No
and they use the SUNFOUNT 340 for all Heidelberg machines.

can you please Recommend me for another fount solution?

Thanks in Advance .

 

[Guest 82818-824]

On the image you posted of the plates, are they running like this when you are printing or does it just do this when running off impresion. To be honest it could be any number of different things. Are you positive all form rollers are set correctly to plate and other rollers? Are your packings correct?

 

[ims1985]

ok in the image I posted the dampning rollers is connected and water between 10% to 20%
when I connect the inking rollers the catch up become Wider so I go with water to 65% to 90% and with alcohol at 10% I go with the water set is 45% to 75%.
when the impression is on,the ink catch up in the front of the paper and in the left side.
to avoid that I have to decrease the ink level than normal a little bit.
-------------------------------------------------
in some jops this way dose not work I have much ink in the left side and much water in the right side of the paper.
-------------------------------------------------
the rollers are set correctly to plate and other rollers,and the water rubber rollers are new from Böttcher.
the ink i use is Hartmann. and I buy all my materials and spare parts from Heidelberg Egypt.

I hope this information can help.

 

[mrheidelberg]

Just double check the settings between pan roller and metering roller (try to just remove the water at the ends then go plus quarter turn) and metering roller to plate damper set with a 5mm ink stripe (and if nesessary put a little more pressure on the metering roller to plate damper setting).

 

[ims1985]

hi all
I have tried many things:
1-Adjust rollers.(many times)
2-tried different fount solution.
3-work with high alcohol level.
4-tried different ink types.
5-tried different plates types.

with no effect.

when I Installed the machine I make mistake I set the machine using small Spirit Level like this,today I checked if there inclination,and the machine was higher from the left a little,i tried to make it straight with the small Spirit Level but it's not good enough and I failed,but the catching moved from the left to right so this is the problem.

any Recommendations?

 

[turbotom1052]

first of all you need to understand that when it comes to ink water balance youve gotta break it down into ink balance, and water balance. good ink balance requires the ink to be fed from the ink fountain to the ink train in a manner that has just the right amount of ink for the form to replenish itself with each and every duct of the ink ductor. too much ink on any or all zones will eventually catch up and over ink the form overall or zonally. too little ink feed will eventually continue to strip ink off the rollers till there is nothing left. the trick is to precisely replace the exact amount of ink that the form requires in only the zones that it requires..
as far as water balance i would simplify it and say as a general rule that you need run only enough water to keep the non image areas of the plate ink free. one way to acheive this is to keep giving less and less water until the plate starts to show a scum line on the very gripper of the plate. im talking bout at the exact point where the plate bend is on the gripper. your looking for an even line across the entire lateral lenghth of the plate. of course all of this is also highly dependant on accurate roller settings on both ink and water rollers, and chemistry that works
mr heidelberg also touched on an issue that id like to expound on. he mentioned how water needed to be removed from the ends based upon the picture you posted. looking at the picture you posted i would encourage you to have your water pan roller checked for the proper crown. most water pan rollers come with a certain percentage of increasing taper or (crown) on the ends to minimize the tendancy to overdamp on the ends. judging from what i see in your photo i would say that if you cant balance the water film across the entire plate as per mr heidelbergs suggestion then the next step would be to look for a pan roller with more crown!!! more crown of course would require to speed up your alcolor motor a bit in order to deliver the proper water film but it just might balance it off