Roland700 perfector 1997

Seen this problem before also. The press was brand new at this point so you couldn't point point your finger at the grippers or the cam followers.The problem ended up being determined by a group of very serious Germans as being a voltage problem. They said, and I quote "NOT ENOUGH POWER!!!" They left the shop, told the owner to get an upgraid on his power supply and went about their business. Years later the problem was still there. It seemed to double drastically past the first perfecting cylinder. To make a long story short Man Roland is the LEMON of press manufacturers. I can probably help you minimize your doubling problem better but it will take a few threads to do it. Literally, I would run out of room trying to type all of the attempts in one thread. Three Words: MAN ROLAND'S SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

johny is their any low spots on the cam followers or when you are running for a while do any of them start to warm up? the answer is no it probably wont be them. Changeing the gripper pads im not sure, if they are the cause of the problem its ok to change them if not its quite an expensive procedure. but feed blank sheets through the press without impression and stop the press and try to find were any sheets arnt held by the grippers right and if every gripper is a little loose i would agree it's ike to be the cam follower or worst case senario maybe a worm cam. if the odd gripper seems a bit out try changaing a feww pads first.

 

thanks rolandman
i have inched a sheet thruogh the press,and the sheet pulls out on the drive side we are going to change the cam followers when we get them, it must be a very short amount of time that the sheet is being held by both sets of grippers during the sheet change over between cylinders.
regards jkohnyprint

 

what unit is the image doubling off of? And is it one right after one of the perfecting cylinders.

 

johny did you try turning your drop sheet sensors off to see if you have to clea the error after a overshot sheet?

 

Hi rolandman/loupeyed
We already had the drop sheet sensors tuned off,
The double is on the unit right after the perfector loupeyed but i think i need more exact information if it was a power problem, i read your thread regarding the issue with the german engineers suggesting more power then "walking off", but i need more information than that, but i will keep that in mind.
thanks johnyprint

 

I hate to the bearer of bad news but simply said the 700 series by Man roland was literally just thrown together. I was sent to school in Chicago to learn this machine. It was a two week course and I have to admit the instructor knew his sh**t. The way the torsion bars act are opposite a normal cam/ gripper shaft combo. I don't know if you know that or not. A normal or lets say Komori cam follower opens the grippers and after passing the lobe on the cam, they shut. Not a Man Roland nor a Miller. the grippers are actually closed by the cam with the use of the torsion bars. "HORRIBLE DESIGN" It makes no sense at all to me to force the impact of the torsion bar/ cam follower to slam the grippers shut. But then again, I'm not a German. I'd be willing to guess that your company is falling into the same hole as all the other companies who purchased 700's. And I'm here to tell you their service techs are a joke. They want nothing more than to milk the clock and find the most fattening diner in the area. Yeah, I said that, seen thousands of dollars thrown towards these slobs when in the back of their mind, they had no intention on fixing anything and they know that the 700's are sh**ty. The series is a faliure in more ways than 20!!!!! I'm really sorry that your boss bought one and I would intervene the purchase of one in any shop that I work at for the rest of my life. I'm a KOMORI MAN through and through and if your wondering I'm not working for them.

 

Loup To be honest i'd put money on you actually working for Komori. I dont know why you have had such bad experiences with 700's but mine was opposite and i found the machine a dream to run.

 

I remember having a doubling problem on a 708 and while cleaning and greasing found the transverters had loose or faulty cams , I dont know if this helps your problem....the Roland in my opinion is a high maintenence machine , aside from the electronic problems...well if you run one youll already know that! If I can be of any help let me know I have run 3 different Man Rolands.....
Steve

 

Thanks for your input loupeyeyed, i'm trying to get to an answer ,i'm aware of the bad things about the press but i need to move on in a more positive direction so please stop trying to make me ring the samaritans.
Thanks steveo
The situation at the moment. I have told my boss to get two new cam followers and try that then if that does not work try new gripper pads, as for the cams, i think an engineer would have to check them, if the cam is worn i guess this would have the effect of changing the gripper timing fractionally, what sort of tension do you have on your transferter grippers,ie what amount of force does it take to close them?. do you have any suggestions as to the best order to proceed to tackle the problem.
regards johnprint

 

those problems were usually handled by our implant maint dept, all I know is the newer Rolands dont seem to hold up well , we had 2 gripper cams go bad and like I said we found a couple of units with bad cam followers , on the transverters and impresion cylinders , I never had to adjust a gripper and the load on the cam should be factory set. I'm not working right now or I'd check the gripper tension for you....I thought the 700 ran well aside from some electronic problems that could be solved with a re- boot...any thing else comes up let me know if I can help ,i ran those 700s for over 10 yrs...

Steve

steveburger54@yahoo.com

 

They might have been a better press ten years ago, I honestly don't know. The particular model that I worked on an got trained on at the Man Roland graphic center in Chicago was an 8 color perfector. I don't work for Komori either but I have watched my bosses eyes literally tear up because of his 3.5 million dollar investment not running day in and day out. And their service from Chicago was a joke. We fixed and found more problems than the Roland techs could. I ran Millers for years but they were far less automated than the 700. The Millers were a good press for basic printing but nothing fancy but they seemed more dependable than the Man Rolands.

 

ive had a cpmletly different experience to you on the 700 in that i acyuallly liked running it didnt give us anywere near as much trouble as yours seems to, never runa a komori but run an aki many many yrs ago and i know its not right to generallise but after running the akiyama i would always think twice about buying japanese

 

Thanks for all the great feedback on this issue, please keep your ideas posted if you can think of anything else that will help.
At work we have just started to change the cam followers on the cylinders/ transferter drums where the double starts. and from there we will decide what is the next best thing to look at, we are doing the cheapest and most simple tasks first, obviously cost is a major factor. so one step at a time, i will let you know how we get on.
Steveo please let me know how big a job it was to replace the cams,ie cost, are they bolted and pinned, i imagine they come in two halves.
regards johnyprint

 

Steveo please let me know how big a job it was to replace the cams,ie cost, are they bolted and pinned, i imagine they come in two halves.
regards johnyprint

not sure about the paticular costs , time , I worked 3rd shift and most of the repairs were done during the day...I think the press was down for a day or 2 , I found the 708 I ran to be a great press , we had UV capabilitiy and with the CCI the m/r s were usually fast and it held color quite well.....let us know how you solve the issues.....

Steve

 

Your starting to throw parts at it to get rid of a problem that's never going away. We started to use free-lance Man Roland mechanics instead of going through the factory. Believe it or not, the best one we ever had was Japanese. He stated that there is no way to lose the double image after the perfector and it was best to use the press in other ways. They will print a descent solid and with their oscillating forms, mechanical ghosting is minimized. Day in and day out printing, it's not for a Man Roland 700, Sorry.

 

ignore that last comment, it is.
I have never ever heard somone with so much bad to say about the 700. Makes you think, is the pressman blaming his tools

 

I was never the operator of this press, only trained on it at their Graphic Center. Although, I did help on this press close to ten years ago. We could get the press up to around 15,000 hr. printing inline but the double image problem was always there after the perfector. The problem was there for us and according to all of the Roland techs, it was there for everyone who purchased this particular series. In fact it is an 8 color 1999 perfector. A.K.A. "THE LEMON"
I loved the press for solids though! Those oscillating forms really did the trick on mechanical ghosting. Financially speaking, go with Japanese.

 

The one i ran was a 1994 perfector didnt have a problem although the one i own now is straight it is still alot older than yours and i dont see an issue maybe you guys were just unlucky, i dont kow.

 

I've heard that the straight printing Rolands are a great press. The perfectors are the nightmares.