Replacement for Phaser 7800

[Mars]

Greetings,

I've had a Xerox Phaser 7800 for about six years now. I'm not a high volume user, and I'm mainly printing on die-cut 8 1/2" x 11" glossy label sheets, 100# gloss text sheets for booklets I then cut down to 10" x 7" in size (finished size 5" x 7" folded), and 100# cover (8 1/2" x 11' and 11" x 17") for various things.

The output quality of the 7800 is quite good, but it's not without issues. First being the cost of supplies, it's a bit outrageous. Second is that I have a few issues with the printer now and will need to call Xerox to fix them. Two of the four trays no longer work, after I heard some loud metallic "clanking" sounds one day while printing. Later I found broken plastic gears in one of the trays, so that's great. What kind of hourly rates can I expect from a Xerox tech? I do not have a contract.

I see that Xerox has "replaced" the 7800 with the Versalink C9000. I received some C9000 samples from Xerox printed on poor quality copy paper, and honestly they don't look very good. Curious what others think of this printer?

I'm in the market for a new printer to replace the 7800. I'd be happy to entertain printers from other manufacturers. It would be nice to have a straight-through paper path (pretty much everything that goes through this printer ends up curling), as well as one where duplex registration is more accurate. I'd also love to get a printer with toner that has a glossier finish, versus the "satin" finish of the 7800.

I'd be willing to spend up to $10K on a replacement printer, and would consider a used unit as long as it is in good working order and has a reasonable number of prints. I have seen some people recommend the C60 Pro as an alternative, and obviously that's a big step up in cost from the 7800 (although used units can be had for a reasonable price).

Any feedback on alternatives to the 7800 that Xerox sells, or printers from other companies that are comparable (especially on print quality) to the 7800 would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance for any insight.

 

[Niels Petersen]

We are in the same boat. Phaser 7800 that just isn't up to snuff anymore and now the booklet maker is just not working. Right now I think we will be going to a xerox c60. It is a much better machine, the print quality is fantastic, and on the used market they can be had for $6k. The xerox guy I talked to today said the new versalinks are not as good as the phaser in any way. Lower page count, worse color, etc. The c60 can also do other color toners like white, clear, gold, silver.

I think you would be much happier with a c60. Straight paper path, real finishing options, external rip, and not a ton bigger than the phaser. The toner is also a lot cheaper, plus the cartridges are about 2x the size. A Color 560 is a very similar machine, just a generation older and it doesn't seem like they cost much less. I would rather have something newer so drivers and firmware stay relevant.

We are also considering a Konica. We are getting some samples from an in-town supplier, we will see.

 

[Biggs]

Have you considered leasing a lower end "light production" device? Either a KM or maybe a Canon C65 or C710? 10K will have you covered for about a year of lease payments. Plus all the supplies will be included - If you're buying toner and parts right now, you could honesty save a fortune.

How many prints would you say you run in a month? Roughly.

You could go with a C60 also, but you'll be in the same boat with curling, among other issues. The Canons are quite nice.

 

[Mars]

Thanks for the responses, sorry for the slow reply myself! Print quality on my Phaser 7800 is getting worse, and rather than dumping more money into this printer, my search for a replacement has intensified. Interesting about the VersaLinks versus the Phasers. I did receive a C9000 print sample from Xerox, but the sample sheets were printed on poor copy paper and the color output did not look very good at all. Part of this was certainly the media, but without seeing samples on the same paper and label sheets I use, it's really hard to gauge.

@Niels Petersen - I do like what you're saying about the C60. Buying a used C60 with a low number of impressions seems like it would be a good deal, especially if the print quality is better than the 7800 (which is really one of the most important things to me). I don't print in high volume, but I probably WOULD use a superior printer more than the 7800, and spend less on external printing. And the lower toner costs is a big plus -- the 7800 toner is crazy expensive (I'd never buy it directly from Xerox), and the C9000 toner doesn't look much better.

@Biggs - I have just shy of 60,000 impressions on my 7800, which I purchased new some time ago. Most of that is full-coverage, double-sided 8.5" x 11" gloss sheets (100# gloss text) or 8.5" x 11" gloss die-cut label sheets. Hard to justify a "light production" for my volume -- if I bought something like a C65 or C710 I'd need to start doing printing for other businesses to justify the cost. I also have these machines at home, which is another consideration (such as has to fit in the door and I need to make sure I have space for such a beast, depending on what options I get with it).

I'd really like to know how the print output of the Canons compares with the Xerox C60. I had one shop run some booklets for me before on a Canon device (don't know what it was, this was at least a decade ago) and I was really impressed with the print output. And the pages (full toner coverage) had a very nice glossy appearance, versus the matte/satin output of the Phasers and most other color lasers I've seen. If I could get that same glossy output I saw from that Canon, I'd be quite happy. Not sure how much I need to spend to get there, though, or if there's anything reasonable that would even generate that type of output.

The finishers generally aren't helpful to me as nearly all the booklets I print have a finished size of 5" x 7". I need to try and find a standalone booklet maker that can work with that size and glossy sheets, as that would save me a great amount of time. However, if I had that, combined with a machine that generates high-quality output, I could do most of my printing in-house, and make money printing for other businesses in my same field.

Thank you and take care,

..Al

 

[Matt_VII]

Jumping in on this thread as i'm also on the lookout for a replacement for my Phaser 7800 as after 6 years it's giving me it's fair share of grief! I have been recommended the C9000 but after hearing Al say the quality is disappointing i'll probably avoid it.
I run a custom merchandise company and wouldn't need any finishers but the print quality and cost of printing are top priorities. The C60/70 does look interesting and would love to hear any more feedback anyone has as there's some used ones for sale that seem to fit the bill.

 

[Mars]

I've purchased some replacement consumable parts for the 7800 to see if I can get the print quality closer to when the machine was new, to give it a bit more life. Especially as it's easy to get new consumable parts inexpensively given the machine's age. Already replaced the fuser and that helped a bit, and I'll have some more parts next week. The only thing I won't have replaced when I'm done is the transfer belt, which is not a consumer-replaceable part but is still relatively easy to replace. I doubt I'll go that far, though.

I'm still doing research on a replacement for the 7800, though, and likely will purchase a new or used machine either by the end of this year or early next, so always good to hear more opinions on possible replacement.

Thank you!

 

[Matt_VII]

What problems are you having with yours?
I replaced all 4 imaging units last Winter which improved helped with lines over large areas of colour. My major issue is the anything with red in the design doesn't stick to the paper properly. To fix this i have to select 'Heavyweight Cardstock' but print quality isn't as good as if it's set to lighter paper. I'm only printing 120gsm Xerox paper. When printing using the 'Plain' setting, almost no toner sticks to page. This didn't happen when i first bought the printer and happens with both OEM and compatible toners.

Wondering whether a firmware update would fix it but all I can find on Xerox website is the one it's running at the moment from 2013.

 

[Mars]

What problems are you having with yours?

A few issues. One that's started happening more recently is heavy toner coverage (mainly CMYK black) will now often cause the toner to flake off, which then gets deposited further down the print (or on the next job). The two main types of media I print on are glossy die-cut label stock (on 8.5" x 11" sheets) and 100# glossy text sheets (8.5" x 11" and 11" x 17") which I use to print booklets. Nearly all my printing on this machine is full coverage on the page (especially for the labels, but almost always for at least some portion of the booklets (at a minimum the front and back covers are generally 100% coverage).

Prior to this more severe issue with toner adhesion, I noticed that the print quality had degraded in terms of blacks (both black by itself and mixed black) being a bit lighter on the page than it should be, as if not enough toner is being laid down.

And one other issue, two of my printer trays (I have four) are broken after some plastic gears broke and I found them in the trays! I'll look at fixing them if I'm able to get the print quality back up to snuff. The printer does always show a message that the printer is offline, but that's a lie as I can still print to it just fine. It's been on my list to look at when I have some time, as I would like to fix those trays.

I have had the printer for over seven years and I've never replaced the imaging units. I have four on the way and will have them in a few days, and I'll see what happens when I replace them.

The 7800 has generally been good to me for most of this time, and it's only in the last year that the quality has began to noticeably suffer. Print output is fantastic when the machine is in good working order, and except for the two broken print trays, I've never had any mechanical issues with the machine and it very rarely jams, even with all the weird media I've thrown at it. Mostly I've just fed it new (OEM) toner carts and replaced waste toner carts. I haven't replaced any other consumables in that time. It's held together better than the Phaser 7700 units I had before (one I had to significantly disassemble one time to replace all the developer units!)

..Al

 

[Matt_VII]

Oh yeah the toner adhesion thing is exactly the same problem I'm having with red areas. I too print onto die cut gloss paper stickers and the issue is most prominent when printing onto that. Did a new fuser fix it the problem?
I now set all neutral greys to print as pure black when sending a job to print. Means the edges are far more defined and the blacks are deeper.

I've seen the C60 has low melt toner, not sure if this is different from the 7800, but could mean less issues with toner adhesion and buildup on rollers? Plus it seems like they're built to be real workhorses.

 

[Mars]

Oh yeah the toner adhesion thing is exactly the same problem I'm having with red areas. I too print onto die cut gloss paper stickers and the issue is most prominent when printing onto that. Did a new fuser fix it the problem?
I now set all neutral greys to print as pure black when sending a job to print. Means the edges are far more defined and the blacks are deeper.

I've seen the C60 has low melt toner, not sure if this is different from the 7800, but could mean less issues with toner adhesion and buildup on rollers? Plus it seems like they're built to be real workhorses.

Sorry, I missed your response earlier. The new fuser did help a bit, but not completely. I'd say it's 90% better, but I'm still seeing a small amount of flaking with some prints and rich black. What it didn't help with is just straight "K" black, which prints much lighter than it should. I have also replaced all four imaging units, the transfer roller, belt cleaner assembly, and suction filter. All toner is OEM Xerox, no third-party toners or other parts. I haven't replaced the transfer belt, which is not really a user-serviceable part, but fairly straightforward to replace. Also, no idea if this printer has developer as the 7700 had. I replaced all the developers on the 7700 and had to disassemble most of the damn printer to do so. I'm not going to spend the time or money to replace anything else on this machine, unless it's clear that replacing something would help fix the adhesion issue and the black issue I describe below.

Also, earlier today I had an "LED Error", which I'd never seen before. Had to power off the computer and power it back on to clear that -- was in the middle of a print job when that happened, but there was a single page paper jam, and the error appeared after I cleared the jam. It's rare for pages, even glossy media, to jam in this printer, it's been damn good about that relative to some other printers I've used.

I know the Phaser 7800 was advertised as "low melt toner" as well, not sure how the print engine differs from the C60. I'm a bit leery to buy another Xerox printer at this point, I think a used, low mileage Canon will yield me better print results with lower consumable costs. I was using a Phaser 7700 before the 7800, and Xerox really doesn't seem to have a clear successor to the 7800. I don't care about speed or monthly volume at all, I just want the highest quality output I can get for under $10K. I dumped about a thousand dollars on the consumables (not purchased from Xerox!), which did help the print quality (the output is now "smoother" overall, except for standalone black, which is terrible).

Let me play with the black output options to see if I can get better results short-term.. Here's what I'm seeing now with just straight black.

This first image is washed out to highlight the issue with the black. It's not uniform, and it's very light on the page. This is relatively new behavior.

 

[Matt_VII]

Oh yeah I can see why you're reluctant to spend more money on it!
I took the leap and purchased a C9000 as I could trial it for 14 days. Print quality was very good but left a faint grey over the whole page along with repeating lines where the precut stickers were. Both problems were only apparent when using the gloss paper and polyester sticker paper. Plain A4 looked great.
Had a Xerox engineer come (for free as C9000 was covered with warranty) out to look at it and he said it's performing properly, but must not like the media I'm running through it.

It's since gone back and I've ordered a bunch of OEM toners and a new transfer roller for the 7800, as the engineer had a quick look at it and said it looked worn.
I'll also get it serviced as it's never been done in 5 years and 80,000 prints. Plus they might help with improving quality.

I was very close to getting a second hand C60 but the sheer size and weight (300kgs!) meant it was impossible with my setup.

I get poor toner adhesion unless I select 'heavyweight cardstock' or 'extra heavyweight cardstock' anything set to glossy doesn't adhere at all and makes a real mess.

Have you tried a factory reset on the printer?
Have you tried restoring the NVM to earlier in the year when quality was acceptable? You'll need to go into 'service tools' for that.

It's a long shot but it's fixed a few major problems of mine in the past.

Here's the problems with the C9000 which has been returned

 

[Mars]

Thanks for the photos, that gray cast with the C9000 is considered acceptable? Screw that, glad to hear you were able to return it.

How much do you think the service will cost? I've never had my 7800 serviced, either. Fewer prints, but I've had it longer. I'd like to know what they end up doing and if it helped print quality. And how much it costs, assuming it's a Xerox tech.

I also select "heavyweight cardstock" or "extra heavyweight cardstock" when using glossy media, and this does help, but it can cause some media to curl a bit, although not too bad since I'm using heavier stocks (100# glossy text and 100# gloss cover mainly). This hasn't helped with the black toner printing lighter than it should be, and I'm still getting a small amount of toner adhesion issues with heaving toner doping (mainly CMYK black).

I have never tried a factory reset on the printer, but I could do that and see what happens. I'd need to recalibrate it as well. I was unaware you could restore the NVM to an earlier state, that is interesting. I've never gone into the service tools on this printer (although I'm pretty sure I did on the 7700 when I had that). I swapped out the black toner cart yesterday (which was still about 80% full) with another cart to see if that makes a difference. Not sure how much toner is sitting in the printer, though, before toner from the new cart will make its way to prints. It's all OEM Xerox toner.

Thanks for your feedback!

 

[Matt_VII]

The service is with an independent printer repair/service company and its £100. I'd like to think they'll give it a very good clean and identify any obvious problems.
Doing anything direct through Xerox is next to impossible unless printer is within warranty, unless you want to pay silly money.

To my very untrained printer brain, it sounds like your printer needs to recalibrate to sort the black out. You can't force the 7800 to do this, but setting the NVM to an earlier date might sort it? Alternatively a factory reset couldn't hurt. All you'd lose is the colour calibrations and image positioning if you've altered them at all.
The pin to allow access to the service tools is 6789 (at least it is on mine).

Do the tester pages direct from the printer have the same problems with the blacks?

 

[Mars]

The service is with an independent printer repair/service company and its £100. I'd like to think they'll give it a very good clean and identify any obvious problems.
Doing anything direct through Xerox is next to impossible unless printer is within warranty, unless you want to pay silly money.

That's why I asked, as I assume any out-of-warranty service from Xerox would be rather expensive. Ideally anyone who came over to look at the printer would already be familiar with the 7800.

To my very untrained printer brain, it sounds like your printer needs to recalibrate to sort the black out. You can't force the 7800 to do this, but setting the NVM to an earlier date might sort it? Alternatively a factory reset couldn't hurt. All you'd lose is the colour calibrations and image positioning if you've altered them at all.

I have run color calibrations on the device, last time was early in the year. I'm fine with doing that again. I haven't modified image positioning at all. I'll go reset the printer in a bit and see if that makes any difference.

The pin to allow access to the service tools is 6789 (at least it is on mine).

Thanks, I'll try that.

Do the tester pages direct from the printer have the same problems with the blacks?

Good question, do any of the test pages print full CMYK black? I'll take a look at them.