Problem with transfer sheets on CX 102-5+L

Discussion in 'Heidelberg Printing Presses' started by printerscd, Jan 5, 2023.

  1. printerscd

    printerscd Senior Member

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    Hello.
    We Have problem with transfer sheets on CX 102-5+L most often Gloss paper format in mm: 1000x700, 1020x720, 900x640 and 130 g. paper or 115 g.paper look like crouching somtimes on left side and sometimes on right side.
    Mashine is year model 2017 and have 198 mil.impression.
    Its look like is to múch air between transfer agregat or somethitg problem with gripper...?

    Just help if i setup printing speed over 12000/h (under this speed its problem)
    Problem coming after 3 years runing in mashine.

    Many thanks
     

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    Last edited: Jan 5, 2023
  2. Beguin

    Beguin Senior Member

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    could you be more explicit! I am not following you well! thank you very much
     
  3. Mechanica Speedmaster

    Mechanica Speedmaster Member

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    Hi printerscd,

    there can be many issues on such press with 198 Mio. I would recomend following:
    Let one sheet into the press and check first how this formats will be transfered from feed drum to impresion cylinder and later etween the printing units (PU). If for exaple the sheet in your mentioned formats is not hold on the edges- it can be crounched.
    In order to check this you can also in the paper setting menu use function "out of center alignment". Usualy there should be value 0 in this adjustment, you can for example put instead "0" different value, lets say 10, and than you can also choose arrow (to drive side or to operator side): for ex: if you put value 10 and the arrow shows down that would mean that your preset adjustments will not use the imaginery center line of the press for adjusting side pull lays to your fomat (also the setting s of feeder and delivery format adjustment will change) but the imaginery center line would move in this case 10mm to operator side- which will make that your paper will be shifted 10mm in the grippers: in this case the crumbling should not appear any more.
    If that does not help than we will proceed further.
     
  4. printerscd

    printerscd Senior Member

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    Hello.

    I Send more foto from format paper: 1020x720 130 gsm.
     

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  5. Mechanica Speedmaster

    Mechanica Speedmaster Member

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    Have you tried what I described to you?
     
  6. printerscd

    printerscd Senior Member

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    This max.format was print 1 month before...

    I printed yesterday problematic formát 900x640 130 Gloss and i setup 2cm out of center to operaring side and griper hold paper front both side very good but image was out of paper...
     

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  7. Mechanica Speedmaster

    Mechanica Speedmaster Member

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    Hi,
    that means you can now either try
    a) to change the air setting on the press or
    b) you can start using bigger paper size or
    c) you can copy your plates out of center- in the same way like your adjustment on the press (in this case 20mm) in order to run smootly this critical paper formats.

    You did this test to check if your paper run is OK after the edge grippers hold the paper right way.

    Br
     
  8. printerscd

    printerscd Senior Member

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    Yes this is good optoin-idea with use biger paper or copy plates out of center for format 900x640.

    But big problem is format 102x720 when in both side dont hold griper 3cm of edge and paper "swiming" we are try seting air but dont help,just help paradoxically run over 12000/h but sometime we print wery small copy and hard Job for register a colour when is better run cca.on 8000/h
    How is griper system and transfer sheets in XL mashine, have same problem like in CX mashine?
     
  9. Mechanica Speedmaster

    Mechanica Speedmaster Member

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    Hi,
    there is a possibility to install also so called "Flügelgreifer" or in E "Flygrippers". Take a look to pictures i found in spare part book. First picture is kind of sheet metal piece which can be added to a gripper, another Fotos show already one part Flygripper for Transfer Drum. The best way to get the right part is to contact the local HD agency and tell them about the problem and they should offer you then one version of grippers for the cylinder you need, according my experience its enough if you install such Flygrippers on 3 or 4 Grippers on both edges of the gripper bar.

    XL Presses have such Flygrippers also installed.
     

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  10. printerscd

    printerscd Senior Member

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    Thanks very much for help a information!
     
  11. mantman

    mantman Senior Member

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    You are certain that grippers open fully and there is no rust to prevent from opening?
     
  12. printerscd

    printerscd Senior Member

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    We must have to check all the grippers...

    Its best if come Heidelberg servis and check maschine, after 198 milion impression must by grippers any special seting-timing,or just clean?

    It can be broken any Cam Follower bearing for grippers maybe?
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2023
  13. Adil

    Adil Senior Member

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    this problem is due to the fishtail movement, normally the cx 102 is an impeccable machine for printing cardboard or thick paper.
    but if you want to pass coated or light weight paper you must make some adjustment at the level of the air cushions between the printing units so that the sheet does not rub on the machine and also you must have half-circle sheets in the transfer cylinders their role is to keep the sheet flattened at the time of passage so as not to have a fishtail movement
     
  14. printerscd

    printerscd Senior Member

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    Hello Adil

    Is an option to instal HALF-CIRCLE sheets in the transfer drum for Heidelberg CX 102 model year 2017 ?

    Foto from one unit is show how air we have set for problematic paper 1020x720 and 900x640 130 g or 115 g.
     

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  15. Adil

    Adil Senior Member

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    I have already seen this on the cd 102 and the sm102, you have to install these half circles on the transfer cylinder with holding air, this solves the problem on the cx 102, let me make sure because this transfer cylinder and the latest generation they have even made changes to the design of the clamp and cylinder bars. let me make sure can this type of 2017 transfer cylinder have these half circles, I'll come back to you later
     
  16. printerscd

    printerscd Senior Member

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    Hi Adil, ok many thanks :)
     
  17. mrheidelberg

    mrheidelberg Senior Member

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    Can you see the mechanism to hold the drums on the cylinder.....if you can then you will have the option & if you cannot, then no & you will have to use the air venturi settings
     
  18. printerscd

    printerscd Senior Member

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    mrheidelberg , according to what I know to install there this mechanism for drums in CX 102?( there must be a place for a screw?)
    Is it possible to regulate the air with the three regulators in the photo? What should be the correct setting for 130 or 100 g paper?
     

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  19. mrheidelberg

    mrheidelberg Senior Member

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    There should be 2 hooks at either end to hook the shell in & a small pull leaver to lock shell in when it is in position.
     

  20. printerscd

    printerscd Senior Member

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    Maybe you have any information for this drums in manual?Or any foto how look this system,?Thanks very much!
     
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