Polor 115 - LMS problem

Discussion in 'Cutters and Trimmers' started by Osvaldo58, Sep 29, 2014.

  1. Osvaldo58

    Osvaldo58 Member

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    I have a Polar 115 EMC without monitor. The problem: lose the value of the position of the backgauge. It works fine until at some time moving the reference point value appears (in this case 61,105 cm) and change the value showing the display with respect to the actual position. This does not occur at a specific position, it is completely random. From what I read in some post the problem arises with the measurement system LMS. What checks can I do to find the fault?
    thank you very much

    Osvaldo
     
  2. Coloured paper

    Coloured paper Senior Member

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    ¡Hola Oswaldo58!

    First regarding the machine:
    There are different EMC machines. The first EMC machine has a light barrier with normal bulbs and you can see the light. This machine is called EMC I (spoken EMC 1).
    The second generation EMC has an infrared light barrier. You cannot see the light. In the left light barrier housing you have a green and a red LED. This machine is called EMC II (spoken EMC 2).

    Both machines have a linear scale LMS, but the internal functions are a bit different.


    What is a reference point?
    The machine EMC I has a board MAZ behind the keyboard.
    The machine EMC II has a board TAM underneath the front table
    If you readout the numbers of the blue/yellow switches in the front of the board, you know where the reference point of the LMS is located.
    An alternative is to move the backgauge forward and backward. The red LED on the Board lights up during passing the reference point. This is like a short flash.
    All the time the backgauge is passing the reference point, the control system does a reset and corrects the measurement. And this can be done without any error message.

    Testing the correct measurement.
    I cut some waste paper to a size of 12 cm
    I move the backgauge (maybe 20 times) in front of the reference point forward and backward.
    Now I position the backgauge to 12 cm and check if the size is still correct.

    Sometimes I do the same procedure behind the reference point.

    If you have the feeling the measurement is wrong, pass the reference point and the size should be corrected.

    What if the machine is broken?
    The linear scale and the trailer cable worn out after some years. Before I touch the LMS I check or replace the cable. The EMC II machine has a roller to guide this trailer cable often this roller is broken as well. In this case you have to much stress for the cable.
    If the cable is broken you lose counting signals and the measurement will be wrong. An electrician can check the cable.
    Before changing the LMS I would check the guiding of the spindle (lead screw). If nobody changed anything regarding the spindle this test is not necessary.
    The next step would be exchanging the LMS and adjusting the measurement. This will expensive but not hard to do. Just the spare part is not cheap.

    But first we will see how far you get.

    Mucho suerte
    Coloured paper
     
  3. Osvaldo58

    Osvaldo58 Member

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    Hi CP
    Thanks for your reply. First my English is not very good. I have to translate it into Spanish to understand the answer. It takes me a while.
    The Polar is an EMC II. It has infrared barrier and board TAM underneath the front table.
    The reference point is at 61,105 cm .. So indicate switches and passing by that measure, in forward or reverse, the red LED lights on.
    The problem is that sometimes, every so often, when the backgauge moves the value of the measure changes to the reference point.
    This happens at different positions.
    We have checked the cable and this fine.
    Can it be an electronic problem in the LMS?
    Very much thanks

    Osvaldo
     
  4. Coloured paper

    Coloured paper Senior Member

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    ¡Hola Osvaldo!

    Now we check my Spanish.

    Creo que ahora entiendo el problema. No sólo hay un punto de referencia. Hay una variedad de lugares y siempre diferentes, diferentes puntos de referencia.

    Hay tres opciones
    Esto puede ser debido a perturbaciones eléctricas que llegan al exterior de la máquina. Las máquinas EMC II eran algo sensible.
    En la mayoría de los casos se presentaron dificultades con soldadura de alta frecuencia. Tal vez se puede comprobar que las máquinas están trabajando en el momento del error.
    Además, la conexión a tierra de la máquina es muy importante.
    La tercera posibilidad es un cortocircuito. Usted puede, si no hay otras máquinas está trabajando comprobar la máquina en un día. A continuación vamos a considerar las diversas funciones de la máquina. Se puede decir lo que la función es defectuosa si el error se produce siempre en una situación.
    Por ejemplo:
    Siempre que el asiento cambia de dirección.
    Cada vez que se detiene el asiento.
    Siempre se mueve la esquadra de montar mesa y el aire se enciende.
    Siempre se mueve la esquadra de montar mesa y el aire está apagado.

    La experiencia demuestra que los problemas ya sea por los imanes magnéticos (por aire de la mesa o de freno de esquadra) es causada o por el LMS

    What is better for you, English or Spanish?

    Mucho suerte

    Coloured Paper
     
  5. Osvaldo58

    Osvaldo58 Member

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    Hi CP!
    His Spanish is better than my English.
    For me it is indifferent in English or Spanish. In English I like it because I can practice ...
    On the problem in the polar: yes. The problem is as you describe.
    I'll start with the analysis of the three options, and then you commented the results.
    Thank you very much for your attention.

    Osvaldo

    Follow in spanish:
    Su español es mejor que mi Inglés.
    Para mí es indiferente en Inglés o Español. En Inglés Me gusta porque puedo practicar ...
    Sobre el problema de la Polar: sí. El problema es como usted la describe.
    Voy a empezar con el análisis de las tres opciones, y luego te comento los resultados.
    Muchas gracias por tu atención.
    Osvaldo
     
  6. Osvaldo58

    Osvaldo58 Member

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    Hi CP!
    I have found that when the air in the talve is running or enabled, and the backgauge moves, then the error occurs. If air off the error does not occur or, at least in several tests, does not occur.
    I can not identify the board (MC?) that controls the air turbine and the electrovalve. Because I have no electrical circuit diagram of the machine. You can send one to my email? Thank you very very much.

    Osvaldo - gominchar@hotmail.com
     
  7. Coloured paper

    Coloured paper Senior Member

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    Hi Osvaldo!

    To send you the correct set of electrical drawings I need the machine number. Above the gear box you will find a machine plate with the number and the type. Till we know the machine number I send a drawing by luck. But it will work for you question.

    The air for the table is controlled by the valve Y94. The electronic board IAR controls the valve Y94.
    Underneath the rear table you will find the turbine (blower). The turbine has a round valve with a plug on it. To check the valve, you may just disconnect the plug at the valve. Try the machine without valve and you know if the short circuit is caused by the valve.
    I do not think the electronic board IAR will give any problems. But a broken valve is able to destroy the board IAR.

    Best regards
    Coloured paper
     
  8. Osvaldo58

    Osvaldo58 Member

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    Hi CP
    Again thank you very much for your help !!!
    The solenoid Y94 operates . It was broken the button under the front table that enables air blow. Had a metal strip that activates the micro switch broken. I replace the broken strip and it works.
    So do not know why, the LMS works flawlessly (??).
    Finally I'm not sure if the air system working properly: when the blade is operated, the air is cut and then finished cutting the air does not return. I have to activate it with the key under the table. This is fine? Because in the other guillotine after cutting, the air returns alone.
    Anyway, what matters is that the fault "disappeared" and the only fault was that he had found with air. I'm not sure if they have any relationship.
    I will continue to monitor this to see what happens.
    Best regards

    Osvaldo
     

  9. Coloured paper

    Coloured paper Senior Member

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    Hi Osvaldo!

    I think it will be okay. Probably there was a short circuit in the switch. The switch has a metal housing.

    Good luck
    Coloured paper
     
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