Plate Image is Fading after xxx-impressions

I am running a Ryobi 3302M with Mitsabishi direct poly plates. when i run this monthly newsletterr 16,000, 11x17 #60, Black & 185 I always have problems with my image. Alot of the time i can run the first-side without to many problems... some minor toning and scumming on the lead edge of the plate>paper and i have to squirt a little bit of water on the ends of the rolls damping unit durning the last half of the run to keep the side scumming off. When i run the second side of the job it is an absolute nightmere everytime. This last time i made it to about 5k and lost the image on my plates and then had to hang new plates every 2k after that to finish the job. It looks like something is rubbing the plate surface off (light greyess color) it loses the blackness of the plate.

Here are some things i have tried, not to say that it still couldn't be one of these issues i have explored so far. I feel i am just running in circles.

• New Clean Chemistry every time
• Running Developer temprature @ 30 celcuis
• New ink rolls and Crestline rolls
• Tech. installed all new rolls & re-checked pressures couple weeks later
• I am running new ink not any old stuff
• I am mixing Universal Pink 4oz per gallon (dropped it down some)
• switched from tap water to distilled

I have never had to use any additives (Ink or water) of any kind during my whole career, and really i am in unfamilar waters. The water metering roller does seem to get more and more build up during the run. I have been told to try an alchol sub. to reduce this. I do have and use metering roller cleaner.

I would love some good old advise so my life can go back to NORMAL

 

If the first pass is ok then you could presume the chemistry, ink, etc is ok. Are you using any anti-set off powder on the first pass ??

 

Is it only with that particular job that you experience this or with other job too? Try washing up after the first side and then start up again. Im wondering if after that many sheets your just getting a calcium build up or something..

 

If the universal pink is just like the pink mega plate solution (which I'm pretty sure it is) try 16oz solution per gallon. I also add 8oz of etch per gallon. I run Kompacs and run the Presstech line of film and chemistry. On lighter screens I start to lose them around 12-13k imps. But solid type I can run 50-60k no problem. Kompacs get a little gummy with ink buildup and I wash them up as needed 30-60k imps. My ink rollers are beat and the stripes a little heavy. Spinks oil base on everything and I go 8 weeks between DPM chemistry changes. I also use distilled water in the solution. So try more fountain solution and add some mega etch and see where you are. As mentioned spray powder can add havoc if too heavy. So watch that too. I use a 320 grade which is a nice overall powder. 16.000 2/2 should easily run with 1 set of plates and no issues.

 

I have been running Poly Mitsubishi plates at the same shop for over 15 years. I have had a 3302m here for 10 of those years. I have had the same problem for the entire time. I had mitsubishi come out and they said it's the ink. The ink guys say it's the fountain solution and the fountain solution guys say it's the plates. I have found the fix to this problem recently. If you would like to try it PM me. I will not waste my time any longer for people that are stuck in one way of doing things. Just a warning it means changing your thinking completely about ink and fountain solutions. All the adjusting mixes and rollers will just mask the real problem. I spent the last 10 years recearching this and finally I found it. My plates now last 50 to 60k with the screens never changing and no more scuming.

 

Care to share the info with the rest of the folk who try to help people on the forum ?

 

I would be glad to. Unfortunately I stopped doing that because everyone keeps telling me it wont work before they even try it. I am not waisting my time anymore. If you want to know send me a pm. If I get enough I may share it here. This should filter out the conservative minds that just want to tell me I am crazy.

 

well im interested.

 

Count me in.

 

Im Interested

Count me in also!

 

I Pm'd but no reply, very interested though.

 

Maybe an answer is being thought up .....................

 

Me 2 Id like to hear about it!

 

I had this issue some couple years ago with Kodak plates. Seems the plate looked great then started printing run a bit then image would actually disappear. And the puzzle was it would not be every job but sporadic really caught lot of hell at the time was press supervisor. FINALLY had a group meeting including prep dept,vendors and Kodak field office on the phone.

Seems the plate sales were instructing the prep dept the wrong way to mix chemicals for plate processer, therefore every couple of weeks when they cleaned the processer and re-stocked it the were actually blinding the plates. Kodak tech rep solved this for us over the phone on conference call so do not always believe your in house rep is gospel...hope this helps.

 

You all have given me some great advise and different things to try, Thanks. I will let you know how things look as soon as i know myself. The problem right now is we really don't get a lot of 10k+ runs maybe 1 per week so it just takes time trying different things.

FYI - i sent the "answer man/miracle solution" a personnel message but he has dropped off the radar. I will be sure to pass this new method of printing along as soon as i have the answer.

 

The company I used to work for had an Itek 3985 so basically a Ryobi 3302M. This machine ran the moloton covers for dampening so no Alcohol is used with it anyway.

This machine did the same thing, some runs you could get 2500 runs some the plate would be ruined in under 500 sheets.

The rollers were checked multiple times and reset. Fountain solution altered. still no change.

The tech narrowed it down to too much pressure between the plate and blanket, once this was put back to the correct spec the problem went away.


As for the chemicals that wnchstr156 is talking about, yes they do differ from the standard founts / ink found on the market today; but if it is a mechanical issue on the press no form of chemicals will fix it.

Put breifly it consists of the following:
Fountain solution - Contains zero solvents, it will not affect the tack, body or drying capabilities of ink, ink film is not altered or increased from fountian solution solvency. It gives you the ability to run a thinner ink and water film.
You also run lighter roller stripes to the plate. (It is formulated to run with the ink below)

Ink - It is a high solids ink; 100% of what is in the can is colours (there to do its job produce colour) the ink contains no fillers or agents to fight against the solvency of standard fountain solutions or IPA, This ink will only work with the fountain solution above.
Normal ink is made up of roughly 75% - 80% colours, the rest is fillers binders etc to help it fight against the solvency of solvent based founts / IPA altering its tack, body etc

Benefits from using this products are
Extended roller life (lighter roller stripes = less friction)
Extended plate life
Reduction in VOC's and elimination of SARA 313, HAP's and Prop 65 chemicals
Less ink used
Faster drying

 

I'm guessing that you have started baking your plates. They don't seem to be holding up. Am I close?

 

Please explain further........

 

We have been checking temp. on a regular basis and it is sitting right at 28 degrees celsius. This is the temp that has been recommended to us.

 

Please share!! I'm always looking for new ideas