Old vs New Press

[McD23]

Hi All
Can a 2008+ press ( sheetfed 4/5 col, full size ) take the place of 2 mid 90's press's and offer increased productivity,efficiency and allow the same flexiblity with scheduling jobs to make tight deliveries ?
An excersize I need to do, and would appreciate feedback from anyone who has been in the same position and done it.

 

[rolandman]

what presses are you swapping and with what

 

[Meny]

Thjis is a big question
if your new press is well equiped for fast make ready and you (like most) mainly short runs - yes , the one press will overtake the 2 old ones.
If you make 1 make ready a day and simply run a long job , well in this case if you run at 15000 on the new press and have both old ones run at 9000 , the oldies will kick the new press easy.
So you have more information to use for this answer.
The point is , that running one press will for ever be cheaper then running 2 , and in a normal job layout you will get more work for less effort from the new press.

good luck

 

[McD23]

Thanks for feedback. They are a old Roland and Heidelberg perfector. Make ready is the killer at avg 40 min.
We will run about 2200 jobs between them for the year, so a new machine would offer significant gains in make ready time. Like you said jobs are mostly small 3000 to 10 000 sheets full size, so running speed not the deciding factor.

 

[Meny]

i will tell you something more.
I have a press i support (i am not a printer but suply tech support to print shops) , an new press from 2008 ,
it prints every month over 500 jobs , some times 650 jobs/month over about 2.5 mil impressions.
At the end of the 2nd year , it had over 50 mil impressions and that includes the learning curve at the start....

They can make a good make ready in 5-6 min' and fly at top speed easy all day - this is a new press.
I have an othe printer who in the season can do 60 make ready's a day (24h) easy.

but you need the right press for that.....

Good luck

 

[turbotom1052]

alot depends on a few key factors....
1) how accurate is your cip data and how finely tuned is it to your press?
2) is the press your talking about equipped with a simultaneous plate changing system that will hang all plates on a multicolor press in about 1 minute?
3) is the nature of your work such that you can flip the counter on once pleasing color is achieved and then continue running?
4) and of course as mentioned what are the average run lengths?
5) are you aqueous coating your jobs requiring a coating blanket change after each one?
we are able to achieve true 10 minute 4/c makereadies on a regular basis doing run of the mill commercial work at pleasing color standards. The press we run is equipped with a simultaneous plate changing system that will hang all plates in just over 1 minute. Our cip data is pretty accurate and will usually require very little fussing around to get a job up to "pleasing color" And unlike many commercial printers we do not automatically aqueous coat every job saving us the time required to swap out a coating blanket when going from sheet size to sheet size. The swapping out of coating blankets is not an automated operation and winds up taking as long as the rest of the MR if we have to apply coating.

So i guess in our case the one 2008 model press we have is producing in one shift as much as the press it replaced was doing in 2 shifts.

 

[McD23]

Thanks for feedback.
Odd question on the 'Heidelberg' sub-forum, but how 'blinkered' should I be to Heidelberg ? ie Am I precluding other potential brands to my company's detriment ( assuming service and parts availibility a given ) ?

 

[Meny]

75% of printers know heidelberg and want heidelberg so this is first choice to most.
if you ask me , after beibg a ONLY HD man for 15 years , i found the alternative and it works for me way better - it's the 2nd biggest press make in the world by size , but 1st in quality & production rates - Komori.

As i see it , today you have only 2 choices on the Market as Mitsubishi , KBA & Man Roland are almost out of the market ,
it is Heidelberg or Komori , and i would go for Komori 100%.
being in South Africa ,you will find a lot of knowledge of the Komori brand arround.

if you have any questions or need ant help - feel free to contact me
meny

 

[FSA]

Get the new press, hands down short runs it will kick *##. In one shop I work in they got rid of a 80's 4c and replaced it with a 8c. The 4c was 45-60min M.R. pending on the operator & feedermen, to 15-25 on the 8c, but there is one operator he still takes 45-60, but he is just dead wood and needs to retire ! The press is only as good as the operator.

FSA

 

[McD23]

Hi All
what is the avg make ready time being achieved with new presses ( with plate and ink and prepress features ) on 4 proc col jobs on art paper between 90 to 300 gsm ?
Lucas

 

[No-expert]

We are replacing 3 1990 sm102's with one xl-105. (A CD102 would have taken 1/2 shift more to achieve the same workload....)