offset printer looking to digital ... too many models to choose from - please help

[printingco]

Hi
I have been looking at all the offerings for digital printers & there a way too many to choose from. please help

I have a few questions;

would you say market leaders are canon or xerox? i am basing this on number of discussion threads in the forums & dealing with suppliers who i currently outsource to.

since this is a canon forum, which model would you recommend? here is my typical work...
sheet size 320x450mm oversize A3
print colour 2 sides
jobs are between 100 - 250 runs
stocks mainly 150gsm - 300gsm matt/gloss
say about 3 jobs a day
no finishing required - have a horizon vac100 collator/stitcher offline to handle this

what would you recommend for the above from the canon range based on my specs & volume?
keep in mind that I may increase the volume by a bit if i have something inhouse which will give me more flexibility (maybe double)

also i may look at running pre-perforated sheets through the machine

80gsm laser (for raffle tickets) 200gsm gloss & 300gsm gloss for door tickets
the perforation will run down the long edge.

Will running pre-perfed stock damage internal components (eg drum)?

Majority of pre-perfed will be in BW. would you suggest having a 2nd cheaper machine to run these if there is damage to components.

Can i run NCR paper 60gsm to print docket books (again pre-perfed)?

I will probably be looking at new/pre-owned, budget of about $2-4kUSD
how much should i set aside for maintenance/repair costs?
what are the running costs toner etc?
for this sort of volume what life expectancy can i expect on the equipment?

thanks for any input

 

[RKirkley]

Personally, I've had both Xerox and Canon equipment and I'm now using Konica Minolta. It sounds like, based on your budget, you are looking at getting used equipment. I don't know how much you'll be running (from your post, it sounds like there may be as many as 30,000+ clicks per month). Based on that, it tells me that you will probably be making a mistake putting in a used machine. You need to consider and look at a FMV lease along with a service/maintenance agreement. I don't know how things are done in Australia, but around here, for "print-for-pay" accounts, you are usually looking at a lease payment of around $700-$1,000 per month on a nice 50PPM machine along with a click cost of about $0.05 to $0.07 (USD) per image (including all service, maintenance, parts and consumables/toner).

We run two Konica Minolta Bizhub 6500 (65PPM) machines adn we usually do 40,000-50,000 clicks per month. Therefore, we are paying out about $2,000 per month for the leases plus about $2,500 per month for the service, but we're billing about $18,000 per month in color work. It works out pretty good, overall.

I've had only one used color machine and that was 10 years ago. Even though it was Xerox-certified and I had a service agreement on it, I didn't keep it very long . . . was just too difficult to keep it up and running in a production environment.

I highly recommend the color machines I'm using . . . and, I'd suggest you look into them. And, due to all the years I spent in the litho printing business before opening my digital shop, keep in mind that to run the two types of operations under one roof is somewhat difficult since it takes a completely different mindset when planning anything about the two routes . . . used equipment being a case in point.

As far as the carbonless, pre-perfed paper, etc., you shouldn't find that to be a big issue.

Hope this helps.

Raymond Kirkley

 

[deckm00]

Shameless plug from a Ricoh employee...be sure to get some samples on and a demo of the Ricoh Pro C900.

 

[MNJuice]

Use digital NCR paper. It's runs great on digital copiers. No jams and no damage done to the drums. I use Canon products. An iR7095 (BW) and an iRC5180 (4 color). The 5180 isn't a "production color" machine, it's a "business color" machine. So that's the draw back. Color isn't as vibrant. But it's fast and the quality is pretty close to an offset press. Plus, you can print all standard sizes on it up to 12x18. Even envelopes without the glue fusing! Standard envelopes work fine.

We've been printing 271gsm paper on it without fail, we won't go heavier, tho. You don't get any problems with toner defusing when ran thru laser printers, after the fact, either. So letterhead is great. We run business cards 30 up on 12x18, we run letterhead 2up on 11x17, we also run letterhead with bleeds 2 up on 12x18 and we run #10, catalog and 6x9 size regular envelopes thru the stack bypass.

We're happy with the company who sold us our Canons. Service is top notch.

 

[bcp]

printingco which way did you go and are you happy? I'm seriously thinking of going for a used Oce CS650 (km6500) at 8c colour & 1 c b/w (full maintenance from Oce)

 

[OkiTech]

Hi, a KM-C6501 would probably be a good choice for used machine as it gets a good feedback as well as their service. I would recommend a 6501 rather 6500 as some bugs were worked out in that model. You definitively would need to beef-up you budget though. We had offers on a 2 6501 repos from the bank around $14k, machines had 200,000-300,000 clicks on the meters which is no big deal at all. Consider that people pay near $2000 in lease payments for those - price looked reasonable, well it was reasonable - sold both in 3 days. Also since you're in graphic arts - seek for Fiery controller equipped machine - there definitively will be the situation where you will mix your offset and digital print and dodging questions "why are these jobs look so different" is something you don't want to deal with. You may also get a Xerox 242/252, once again rather these than 240/250 as it is newer model, there for less bugs. These machines cost $6-8k depend on options and mileage, I understand that you need machine to lay a flat sheet but Fiery controller adds up to cost and you'd be glad you have it. I am under impression that you're not in the tight budget, seems like $4-5k is the money you're willing to throw to see how it goes... In case you are - OKI CX-3641 could be an option, it can take 330 gsm but because it is a cartridge based, there are no service contracts, so running a 100% coverage jobs could be kinda expensive. Machine cost less than $2500 and could serve a purpose of "giving it a try" and be a back-up to whatever production machine you decide to get if this "digital idea" works and be a handy, decent printer in any case.
Roman. I have a printing shop + Office equipment sales/service company, just became OKI Authorized service dealer..
We have few OKI CX machine that I had mentioned but can get pretty much anything else.
On our last report, there is a Xerox DC-242 with 562K on the meter and KM-5501 with a little over 1 million clicks with fiery for a $8K

 

[bcp]

I would recommend a 6501 rather 6500 as some bugs were worked out in that model.

What bugs?

 

[Thomson]

According to my opinion 3D Model Small Offset Printer - 31445 is the best model for handling the print specifications. our website online poster printing specialized in Digital offset printing presses also help you in finding the best one for you.