Neewbie press questions

Discussion in '1-Color and 2-Color Offset Presses' started by DesignerDon, Sep 20, 2011.

  1. DesignerDon

    DesignerDon New Member

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    I have 5 years exp. in web offset printing. I want to start my own sheet fed printing shop. What is a good press to start with: Ab dick 360, Ryobi 3200 cd ect... Of course these presses are one color. How well do they print 2 color and 4 color? How much waste should I expect to have with multiple passes? Should I stick to one color and then buy a t51 t-head make more money then go 4 color process press?

    Thanks,

    Don
     
  2. ziggy33

    ziggy33 Senior Member

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    Well Don, I have a AB Dick 9840 with a T head that i use for one color jobs and two color env. I also run a AB Dick 9985 for all my two color and 4 color process jobs. The waste will depend on your ability to set up the machine and run smoothly. If im running a 4 color process job thats two sided and has to be folded I give myself at least an extra 300 sheets incase something were to happen with the second side or the folder. Better to print more than you need than to have to put it back on the press. I wouldn't recommend the Ryobi 3200 cuz the one in my shop will not print a smooth solid at all I have tried alot just wont do it. You can pick up a decent press for pretty cheap now a days. Good Luck with the new venture!
     
  3. FSA

    FSA Senior Member

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    DesignerDon
    If you can swing it get the 4c, the margins will make it worth while. In today's market you will be up against the copier and the clock,time is money. If your only plannig on staying at 1 &2 colour runs fine, get an old dick. But if you what to be competitive get a Ryobi (3304H or HA)good press, GTO is a solid machine, but there all junk if you don't have an GOOD operator to run it! Was the web you worked on a one colour or two, not. And think about how you will make plates, that is another large cost, and how green do you want to be? With a 4c it opens more doors and you will need much less waste. Good Luck and start looking on E-Bay to see the price of stuff, other sites will cost more, auction beware some good, some not.
    FSA
     
  4. ziggy33

    ziggy33 Senior Member

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    I agree with FSA better see the press print a sheet before you buy it I did not see what my ryobi 3200 could do, my boss just bought it and then we were like oh hell we just wasted $2,500 on a press to use as a shelf
     
  5. Meny

    Meny Senior Member

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    Don
    the question it about your targets.
    If you are aiming at having something to do and geting the fridge full - well a dick could do that if you can sell your self and defend the quality you print on it.
    On the other hand , if you are thinking young and looking forward - buy a press , not an AB dick.
    some will be mad with me , but i realy do not care - i say the truth.
    The small duplicators are built to duplicate and print very simple jobs. Yes you can print a nice image with it to suit SOME customers , but it will never ever do a realy GOOD JOB - that's printwise.
    Buy a proper pres , a 2 color GTO or a 4 color press , and do not invest in TOYS if you want to make a living from it and keep the option to grow.
    If you wanted to be a NY taxi driver , would you go for a 1978 Fiat car ???
    No , as you would find it very hard to fill your Taxi with paying riders... same with the presses ,
     
  6. FFR428

    FFR428 Senior Member

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    Meny I agree with you on the quality of the press. But in these times and economy here it's easy to get over your head and lose your ***. Nothing wrong buying a smaller press to start with and upgrade as you do. And you need to be a ace pressman too! If this were me I'd keep my day job and open this as a side biz until I'm certain it's the way to go. Besides a press you'll need a cutter, folder, copier, computers, programs and all supplies for them. Plus your the salesman, pressman, designer, prep, bindery guy and delivery guy. Unless you have a few partners looking to invest and join you and share the workload. I would set a reasonable budget for equipment and upgrade when you can. Know your competitors and pricing structure. Printing is a very cut throat biz. I have seen good longtime clients trades sides to save a few bucks on a job. Or for a kickback in cash or whatever. It's all out there on all levels. Done right you will succeed.
     
  7. Meny

    Meny Senior Member

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    FFR
    I am not at all in favor of a big commitment with no future.
    I am not for buying equipment with the idea that it will do what it can't do.
    What you say is like the following in another area of life.
    Tourist ships are good money , but i do not know if my new tourisem business will work , so i will buy a 4 meter skif and some padels and i will sart small and grow....

    You can grow if you have the 3 parts of the whole:
    1. quality
    2. service
    3. sales

    If you start with a rack that is not built for quality , you will never get it right on the first point , you will fight to serve on time and i vote you will be late most of the time (bad service) and you will be so busy doing what you are not built to do , you will have no time for sales.
    If you take a proper one color press , it is not that high in price , you can (if you have the know how) do a good job in short time and get the quality to your customer on time.
    Any other way is a much bigger risk at the same expens....

    Good luck any way
     
  8. Meny

    Meny Senior Member

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    Hi Don

    I understand your point and aim very well , i simply do not agree this is the right way :)

    What i can tell you is that this week 2 X 4 color DI 46 presses will be sold very very cheap.
    The 46DI will not give you the quality of a HD CD press , but it can do the same as all the smaller toys yet in 4 color proccess and easy.

    Tis could be your chance to start small - yet bigger and more of a real press as much as a DI 46 can be called a real press...

    Talk to me if you find interest

    meny (if you pres on my Nik you will be able to send me a direct PM)
     
  9. DesignerDon

    DesignerDon New Member

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    Thanks you everyone for the replies. What types of jobs should I try to sell on a one or two color press?( Forms, NCR's, letterheads, envelopes ect...)

    @Meny

    That is an interesting thought. The Di press is a real time saver. I been look around the net and found a few used Heidelberg QMDI-46-4 for around $25000. I probably would spend that much on a two color press with a CTP system. The Di seems to be the better choice. I am also a Graphic Designer(one more year of school till I get my BA). I am wanting to start up a company similar to these guy's http://thelogocompany.net/ Do you think these presses would fit my printing needs?
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2011
  10. Meny

    Meny Senior Member

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    Hi Don

    A DI is the the highest quality press , but it will in most cases give you better quality and way faster then printing a 4 color job on a press that was not built to do so.
    It is like a mazda 6 car can take your sofa for you on the highway but it was not built to do so....

    The output quality if a DI press is good for simple jobs like letter heads , forms , basick process jobs - it is not tye kind of press to print art books or any high quality defined job.

    but nor are the small 1-2 color's you have talked about.
    If you buy a 2 color SM 52-2 , you can do real good work but that will cost you much more and you still need a CTP to go along.
    What is the market you are aiming at ? what are your capabillities to sell ? this is all up to you , but i feel , that in this market today , to base a business onb a 1-2 color toy press is wishfull thinking and non realistic.
    If yoiu take a good DI press (and i do not like them persobaly) , you will be able to build a comopetative business in a short time , assuming yoiu know haw to sell , know how to supply good overall service and do the right things.....at the right time & place.

    Good luck , and if you need more advice - feel fre to call me at +44-79-24232341
     
  11. ziggy33

    ziggy33 Senior Member

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    I disagree with Meny that a DI is the highest quality press! Digital printing can never (can't emphasize never enough) out beat a offset press with a good operator. Its just a plain simple truth
     
  12. Meny

    Meny Senior Member

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    Hi Ziggy33

    i have made a mistake , i should have writen " NOT the best" , but as i was talikg on the phone at the tome it came out as "THe THe best"

    The DI is not the best press and will deliver medium quality for simple jobs , never do art work or museum books with it but for letter heads , Piza fliers and so on , i tis reasonable and will deliver better result then a 4 color job on an AB Dick.

    As a starter press for basic jobs it is good result for money.
    Is it "real press" quality - no way.

    So n need to disagree :)
     
  13. DesignerDon

    DesignerDon New Member

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    Ok lets put color to the side.
    1. For a one color press, what should I look for?
    2. What are the pro's and con's using a used press?
    3. What are the pro's and con's using a new press? Pesstek is selling AB Dick 9920 for $38,400. Will this press last along time with minimal repairs?
    4. Could I recondition an old AB Dick to get the same print quality as the new 9920 at the fraction of the cost?

    -Donavan Jones
     
  14. Meny

    Meny Senior Member

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    Dear Don

    All th smaller systems like the AB dick's are not real "presses" but more kind of advanced dupricators limited in quality.
    You can get an old AB Dick to do the same as a new one , yet new or old , it will never evere deliver the same quality as a "real press" , take it or not - this is the fact of life.
    For the cost of a new AB DIck you can get an excellent used 2 color press that will last longet , less problems for years and yet supply you with better quality.

    Again , if you want to print letter heads in color , the AB Dick will deliver reasonable- fair quality
    If you want to print good proccess results - GET A REAL PRESS

    Need help for the right choice ?
    call me
    meny
    +44-79-24232341
     
  15. William Taylor

    William Taylor Senior Member

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    It sounds like you are not 100% sure about what road to take. If you are serious about starting a print shop then do some research into what areas you could financially tap into and set up a business plan for the next five years.
    If you have a couple of hundred grand to invest then look at a franchise. If you have under 10k then you may want to start out in your garage running NCR and simple flyers on a AB Dick and build up your business and clients the old fashioned way.
    Bear in mind though, if you by an old used press you get an old used press with the cost of brand new expensive parts when something goes wrong, especially with the DI. Good luck.
     
  16. DesignerDon

    DesignerDon New Member

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    I'm 100% sure I want to start out small. I just needed to know If I could do 4 color process job on an AB Dick Press, because if a client wanted me do a 4 color job I need to know if I should take it an run it on the press or send it out, as it seems I need to send it out. I'm going to start this out of my garage and do small jobs and build up some clients. I only have $12,000 to start up. Four color is out of the question right now. Hopefully I can target churches, schools, non-profits, small business, the police department, wedding invitations and government to print there one color and two color needs. The next step will be four color, that is after I can build up clients for one/two color.
     
  17. William Taylor

    William Taylor Senior Member

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    I think you're doing it the right way. Start off small and gain valuable experience as you go along. Get yourself a good deal at a bigger shop for process work and mark it up. They may even cut you a deal for making your plates for your press. If you are working out of the garage then you're overheads are less so you can be slightly cheaper until you have a good client base. Get yourself a press that requires no electrical modifications to the 120V circuit. Phone around bigger print shops to see if they have any old equipment sitting in a corner that they would be glad to get rid off. I got a Multi 1250 and film camera this way. You don't know if you don't ask. GOOD LUCK.
     
  18. dclgraphics

    dclgraphics Member

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    DesignerDon

    Printing Equipment you are going to need for one or two color printing
    AB Dick press with a Swing-Away T-51
    Envelope feeder: AB DICK Astro AMC2000 Envelope
    Paper Cutter: MBM 6550 - 25" FULL- POWER Paper Cutter + POWER CLAMP + VERY NICE
    Folder: Baum 714 Folder 14" x 20"
    Padding Press for NCR forms
    Rollem Auto 4 Mini Numbering, Scoring, Perforing, Slitting Machine
    Booklet Maker or a Rapid 106 Electronic Stapler
    A plate burner or a Computer-to-Plate system

    For four color work you can outsource your jobs to a trade printer like
    https://trade.4over.com/company.php

    If you need more advice, you can reach me at (dclopez@dclgraphics.com)

    David C. Lopez
    http://www.dclgraphics.com/

    P.S With a AB DICK Press you can some nice affordable two color doutone printing.
    http://www.dclgraphics.com/index.php?m=19&s=22
     
  19. FFR428

    FFR428 Senior Member

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    I have had the best results running multi pass color work on a press with a register board (Multi or Hamada) then on a direct feed AB Dick. I cut my teeth on a 1250 Multi many many years ago. So to me it's what I prefer. I would choose something you have experience running if any. I ran many 660 Hamada's which in reality are a glorified Multi by design. Solid workhorse press. I would also choose a older variable speed pulley model vs the later speed invertor models. Cheaper to repair. The older AB Dick, 1250 Multi and 660-660 Hamada are also a bit easier to move and somewhat forgiving to setup. Something like the Ryobi 3302 is a bit harder to move and setup and uses 220V so it's not even a suggestion at this point for what you intend to do. There's smaller electric cutters you can buy that actually work quite well but limit you on cutting larger than 20" sheets. And a table top Baum folder can handle just about all your folding needs. If you can find yourself a old Itek Megalith camera those work very well on line and velox work. It's old tech stuff but cheap and easy to use. And the mega film and chemistry is the same used on the CTP systems Prestek sells. You could buy your film from a local shop but it gets expensive and your at their mercy on timeframes. For your initial budget of $12k you should be able to get most everything to start. You can build a padding rack. For years I used a wide wood padding rack that was pitched back on a angle. I'd jog the paper and stack it up neatly and place a small piece of wood and a lead weight on the lead edge for weight. I did pads and NCR anything that needed to be padded.
     

  20. FFR428

    FFR428 Senior Member

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    Also to add on making plates a funny story. Many years ago (30+) when I was still a newb pressman I went to the local diecutter guy to drop off a job. He had older beautiful Heidleburg letter presses. Set lead type by hand the old fashioned way and had a couple of old Klugies for perf and numbering etc.... Antique stuff back then even. Anyway he had a 1250 Multi for offset work and he used to tape the neg and plate on the front shop window in direct sun to expose the plate. And then develop them by hand. He had the times down for sunny and cloudy days. LOL I always got a kick out of that. He was a true craftsman and someone I'll never forget.
     
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