Main Pile at Upper Stop

Discussion in 'Heidelberg Printing Presses' started by Hanania, Jul 1, 2018.

  1. Hanania

    Hanania New Member

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    Location:
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    Speed Master SM 102-4-P3
    I get Main Pile at Upper Stop on the screen, and every since this message we have been getting double sheets inserted.
    Any advise is greatly appreciated.
     
  2. CHOCK

    CHOCK Senior Member

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    Hi sir:
    I am strong recommend you to test the limit switch and sensors in this list:
    11B11 Auxiliary pile detection
    11S31 Suction head limitation
    11S32 Upper pile safety
    11S33 Upper main pile limitation
    11B33 Upper main pile limitation
    11S34 Bottom main pile limitation
    11B35 Automatic pile transport
    11S35 Automatic pile transport
    11S36 Upper limitation of auxiliary pile
    11S37 Bottom limitation of auxiliary pile
    11S39 Pile support plate limitation
    11S56 Switching off the auxiliary pile
    11S65 Pile height control
    To due that any can be faulty: a) loose wires, broken wires, dirty with dust or oil, contacts dirty, or damaged, or disajustment. or lack of voltage.
    Any of this Limit switch and sensor in the Feeder, are Inputs the for the Board SEK, and register the information
     
  3. CHOCK

    CHOCK Senior Member

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    Fix it sir?
    Let me know
     
    Rosko likes this.
  4. Rosko

    Rosko Member

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    Hello colleagues
    I have a problem with one of the machines I support - CD 102-5-L, 2004 year of construction.
    During printing, the feeding of sheets from the feeder stops (the main pile on the feeder stops lifting). The suction head tries to feed the sheets, but fails because the main pile does not go up. The machine stops with two errors:
    There are two messages in the list of errors - 1. The motor is blocked (number: 0x0002001E); 2. Power part detects incorrect operating status (number: 0x0002032B).
    I checked all the limit switches of the feeder, as well as "+ 60-B331", all work correctly.
    For me, the problem is in "+ 60-M1", this is the main pile drive on the feeder (brake, encoder, bearings ... ???), but I'm not sure?!?

    Can anyone help!
    Thanks!
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Jack liston

    Jack liston Senior Member

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    Try to lower the auxiliary feeder bar it may be up to high clean the sensors at the bottom of pile chains on feeder.
     
  6. Rosko

    Rosko Member

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    I do not have auxiliary feeder bar.
    We have auxiliary pile drive only at the delivery.
     
  7. Jack liston

    Jack liston Senior Member

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    Try to lower the continuous feeder bar.
     
  8. CHOCK

    CHOCK Senior Member

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    Hi sir;

    Good day hope you are well.

    After check his problem, with the machine, will tell you this first;

    1)the machine has 3 control a) press control for detection and evaluation Input signals b) safety circuit for detection and evaluation of safety signal c) auxiliar drive control.

    After you understand this very easy, the machine all operations, are executed by limit switches, sensor, and switchs.( For input +safety +aux )

    In order that you make easy, i Strong recomend you to do the 1er STEPS before to go to another sections. to test the following switchs and sensors, that Interrupt the STOP THE FEEDER!

    1) 11 s31 2) 11s32 3) 11b33 4)11s36 5)11b26 5) 11s25 6) 11b35.

    All they will STOP the FEEDER, with controlling the Stop of main pile motor M1.

    the limits switch, and sensors , you must test, for dirty, faulty, oil, loose wires,loose connectors, bad contacts, corrosion, or lack of voltage ;+24Vdc ,or disadjustments.

    Of course, the is everything is o.k, there are another steps, that will coming, like to test the electronic boards, brake,etc.

    and finally use; " the common sense" the most invaluable tools, for troubleshooting..

    Let me know, sincerely
     
  9. CHOCK

    CHOCK Senior Member

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    Hi sir:

    The preset Feeder +standard Feeder, they are the same limit switch and sensors with the same numbers, please do it.

    the main pile motor 11M1= 11M1 , etc....

    I believe that you did NOT check the schematic diagrams, please verify very well.

     
  10. Rosko

    Rosko Member

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    Hi Sir,

    The situation is as follows:
    The continuous drive power bord ( CDPB + 60-A41) on the feeder has three indicator LEDs - green, yellow and red.
    When the main pile is go up or go down, the green LED lights up. When the main pile is not moving, the red LED lights up.
    The last time he blocked the main pile, while lifting the pallet up - the green LED lights up for 2 seconds, 22.8V ( The brake supply is normal ) is applied to the brake ( the brake is heard to apply ), but the motor did not start.
    After these 2 seconds, the red LED lights up and an error occurs - " Motor is blocked ". I also have a video, but I can't attach it.
    The error is cleared, by restarting the machine.
    The fact that the green LED is on, means that the motor is allowed to start. For me, there is no problem with the signals from the machine!

    For me, the problem is in the Continuous Drive Power Bord (CDPB - see photos) or it may be in the motor of the main pile (brake, bearing, encoder, reducer ...) !?!?
    The model of Continuous Drive Power Bord is LTM3000-S. Its designation on the scheme is " + 60-A41 " .

    At the moment when the motor is blocked, 22.8 VDCs are applied to the brake.
    Power to the motor, I do not know! I can't measure it because it's changing fast!
    The motor (+60 - M1) never heats up.

    Please help if you have an idea what is the damaged part ?!
    Thanks in advance!

    Regards!
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 5, 2022
  11. ashok kumar

    ashok kumar Senior Member

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    Hi.
    For motor blocke
    Pls swap +60a41 with 70a41( both are drive cards) to cross confirm (problem with drive Card Or not)
    If problem still there then
    Then check 60m1 and 70m1 details
    If same then swap motor (without gear box)
    With these 2 action you will able to diagnosed the problem.
     
  12. CHOCK

    CHOCK Senior Member

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    Hi sir;

    2) The LTM 3000'S , is indicating if the LED Green, the brake is released, IF not you must have a problem with the brake circuit.

    3) That means, if you do NOT HAVE , the +24Vdc in the brake, you have a faulty; 1) in the power supply for the brake 2) and coil of the brake Reheating, NOT burning, is to due to the lack of varnish recovering the winding the brake, and of course time for maintenance of main motor 60 M1, For LUBE, replace of bearing, and recovering of varnish too.

    3) The indicative of voltage for 22.8 Vdc, is signal that power supply for brake is 1) faulty or 2) coil of brake is reheating, NOT burning.

    4)attached is there the sensors+limits switch, that you must be test , that is indicated, before i did you mentioned before, very well,.....!!!!!!!!!!!!

    5) Finally measure the test voltage in Pile MOTOR 60 M1, coming from CDPB=LTM3000'S, if there are NOT voltage, please starting in the troubleshooting, with Limit switchs +sensor, and following.

    If you are NOT sure, take out the pile motor , and test in bench shop !!!!!

    Let me know.

    Blessing.
     
  13. Rosko

    Rosko Member

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    Hello Sir,
    The power supply to CDPB has it and is 380 VDC. Today I took off the motor and disassembled it. The brake turned out to be at the front of the motor. 4 days ago I opened the rear cover to see if there was dust in the motor, from the brake - no. But I didn't know that the brake was so deep - there is no way to know if there is dust from the brake if the motor is not disassembled. There was a lot of brake dust inside (from the ferodo). The motor bearings look good, but I don't like the air gap in the brakes. Now, air gap is 0.35 mm. For me, it would be good to reduce it to 0.15 ÷ 0.20 mm. - I will try to do this tomorrow. I will also see the condition of the front bearing, to the gearbox. The rear bearing is fine. For me, the problem may be from the air gap of the brake - it has increased?!? I continue tomorrow.
    Thank you for your time!!!
    I will write how far I have come ...

    Regards!
     
  14. CHOCK

    CHOCK Senior Member

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    Hi, You can try the gap brake.

    But as I did mentioned:
    1) test limit switch+ sensors, x + 24 Vdc

    2) if the Voltage is 380 Vdc, test in terminals of the 60 M1 !!!

    3) please increase the +24 Vdc as I did mentioned before x brake, and look x Reheating winding!!! Not burning, but lack of Varnish inside!!

    Otherwise you must waste his time, and money.

    Blessings
     
  15. Rosko

    Rosko Member

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    Hello,
    I set the air gap of the brake from 0.35 to 0.20 mm, but it has no effect. The motor stops again, with the same error - "The motor is blocked". I had connected the multimeter to the input of the controller (380 VDC), while the motor was running and the moment it stopped, the voltage is 380VDC, which it should be. As far as I manage to measure the power supply to the motor, it is fed and immediately decreases, and the voltage to the brake is there - 22.8 ÷ 23.00 VDC.
    After adjusting the air gap, the brake, it attracts at 8.00 VDC. That's fine, but I didn't expect the motorto stop again.
    I already think that the motor control is damaged!?!?

    Regards!
     
  16. CHOCK

    CHOCK Senior Member

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    Hi sir:

    My apologize for the delay, as I did indicate, i have to my wife with cancer, and dealing with the chemical therapy.
    1) i believe that i did explain you before, the windings; for brake + motor is Overheating , by lack of varnish. is time to go to the electrical shop for rewinding or replace by new one.

    2) however you can make a test by supply with a source for 389vDC for the , with the brake OFF, and disconnected, and see if the motor is Running, this will give you a better idea, if the motor is faulty as I did indicated, or the control motor board is faulty.
     
  17. Jack liston

    Jack liston Senior Member

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    My prayers are with you and your wife chock blessings
     
  18. CHOCK

    CHOCK Senior Member

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    Thank you Jack

     
  19. Rosko

    Rosko Member

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    380 VDC, is fed to the control input. I had connected the appliance to monitor it while the main pile station was working. The supply voltage 380 VDC did not change during and after blocking the main pile.
    There is no circuit of the three windings to ground. Windings looks good.
    I think that if there is a problem with the three windings (damaged insulation - varnish), a message (related to a similar problem) should be written on the control panel.
    The bad thing is that I have nowhere to get the same working motor, replace it and find out if the motor is damaged.
    I'm still looking for the problem.

    Mr. CHOCK, thank you for your time!

    Regards!
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2022

  20. CHOCK

    CHOCK Senior Member

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    Hi sir

    I believe that you did NOT understand the fact , about overheating Motor, there are NOT special device, tool, or software for to detect this kind of problem.

    In my 49 years of experienced Professional Engineer Electrical/Electronic, working for the Graphic Art Industry, i did learned some Tips+ Trick, that does NOT appear in any book, University, and only the Practices and Experienced with all the year , you can get it.

    By other side, i can supply the motor, or electronic board, new one, or used.
     
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