Laminating

Is there anyone else here that has trouble with laminating pieces that come off of the iGen? I cannot get the laminate to stick to the product. I've tried 3mil gloss laminate which uses a heated laminator which does not seem to work very well.

I've gone up to 5mil which is better, yet it still isn;t sticking quite right. It tends to de-lam.

 

How long are you letting it sit between printing and laminating?

 

5 minutes? Does letting it sit determine how well it will bond?

 

From Xerox:

Keys to optimal Lamination film-to-paper bond:

Laminator temperature and speed controls need to be monitored/adjusted/optimized. This is most critical.
Hold the printed material for at least 2 hours before laminating, to allow the fuser agent time to dissipate.

It is recommended that the media be laminated on the coated side rather than the uncoated side. The fiber structure on the
uncoated side prevents the laminate adhesive from penetrating the media surface well and adhering to it.

 

I will test that this morning. I left some of my product sitting overnight. Going to try it as soon as the laminator heats up.

 

I tried a few different temperatures and also tried a few different speeds. It still isn't sticking as well as I would like to.

When doing an "X" test (cutting an "x" into the middle of the piece and peeling the lam back) it comes right off. It isn't adhering to the paper.

I wonder if there are some laminating rolls that are better for digital media out there....

 

This is from 2008, I hope that it helps. I am going to assume you are on Fuser Fluid II also, yes? You may want to check with your laminator supplier.

 

We have been laminating sheets of the Igen for years (we have outsourced our printing until recently) It has been a disaster. The IGEN is a great machine, however the laminate peels and pops of our products at will. We really do believe the fuser oil negatively effects the laminate adhesive.

We have gotten samples from Machines that do not use fuser oil and have had amazing results.

If you need to stick with the IGEN , Follow all of the Xerox tips listed above, and make sure you laminate is designed for digital printing (IE DK's Super stick)

 

Yes we are using Fuser Fluid II. I gave our supplier a call and he suggested I use a "low melt film" or "digi coat" as he called it. They only offer it in 3mil gloss for the 25" laminator we have, but we will test this out sometime mid next week.

I'll be sure to post my results.

 

Best of luck to you. It was always a battle for us. Mostly on high coverage jobs on 100# gloss text. Oddly enough we tried a different stock (100# Offset) in hope of better results, but found the laminate peeling on low coverage jobs..

 

I've noticed it is very inconsistent. The one I had been testing most recently was high area coverage on 100# gloss text as well. It was not working.

We did a lower area coverage job 3 days ago on 100# gloss cover and it was sticking just fine.

It's too unreliable for me so I've passed the word on to our sales groups informing them that we are at a standstill with flush cut lam on digital pieces until I can test this 3mil digi coat.

 

We just leased a Canon imagePRESS , everyone here is very excited. Everything we do here is laminated, so the Canon is a good bet. The digi Coat should help a bit. Let me know how it does, i have a few other tricks that might help if it doesnt work.

 

i've worked in a finishing shop where we laminated all types of digital prints. we used a laminate product called PET which help but it was still a hit or miss on digital printed sheets. most sheets that didn't have print on the edges worked best as for us it wasn't so much the fuser oil as it was the toner. sealed edge was also a better bet than flush cut.

 

Yes I've learned that encapsulating everything will work just fine. I had a feeling it was the toner somewhat. It definitely sticks to the white edges the best.

Will the digi coat work 100% for the iGen printed pieces?

 

I would say no, it should be better. Not perfect.

 

So it is still going to peel? That is unfortunate. I will have to do testing first hand to see for myself. Thanks for the honesty though lol.

 

We have tried DK's Superstick Digital laminate, and Diamonds High-Tac Digital laminate, Neither had perfect results. BUT, our production facility battles the elements during hot and cold months. If you have a temperature controlled environment I think you may have better luck. ALSO, we produce laminated magnets (and only magnets). The magnetic material tends to cool down the laminator greatly as its feeds. If your just laminating paper, that's another plus for you.

Don't let me turn you away! your odds are much better than mine!!

 

Two thoughts on laminating iGen output:

1) let it sit for 24 hours to allow for the fuser fluid to set completely. We tend to run low and slow (low temp, slow speed) for best results, but that is also very much affected by substrate. Aside from peel and pop, other problems we've encountered with laminating are mottling and colour shift (darker, like adding a spot varnish). Which brings me to thought #2:

2) Don't. Just don't laminate. There are TONS of substrate options out there which negate the need for laminating. Xerox, for example, offers a number of poly papers that are tear-proof, water-proof, as durable and far more useful for a variety of projects that might traditionally require lamination. So, to save yourself some headaches and client complaints, why not sell them on a poly substrate? It adds a few cents to a project--literally, I just costed this out for a client--but in return, you can offer faster time to market, no colour shift, no worries about the laminate popping and peeling.

Cheers!
-d-

 

100% agree! It is also a much "greener" alternative to lamination by avoiding it completely and printing on a poly stock.

 

Zoiks! I've had this problem for years with Xerox digital prints - if you run your laminator at 105 degrees Celsius and use D&K Super Stick (or equivalent thermal OPP films) you should be ok. Run job on laminator at crawl speed regardless - it's a nightmare on bigger runs but it will stick to the sheet. Avoid solid blacks from any Xerox digi press for laminating - tell the customer it looks gorgeous and doesn't need laminating or some feeble excuse - you just don't want to see the job ever again once you've finished it do you ?