ink/water ratios on komori

Here's an idea? After you are sure that your color is stable, speed up your press. If it starts to scum , plug or wash out, adjust your dampners to compensate . If you are unsure if your running to much or not enough water, then get up off yor *** and go up on the press and take a look at the glare on the plate!

There is a difference between a pressman and a button pusher.

Rod (30 yrs. exp.)

ps. Richard, I know that you sir are definetly NOT a button pusher!

 

Here's an idea? After you are sure that your color is stable, speed up your press. If it starts to scum , plug or wash out, adjust your dampners to compensate . If you are unsure if your running to much or not enough water, then get up off yor *** and go up on the press and take a look at the glare on the plate!

There is a difference between a pressman and a button pusher.

Rod (30 yrs. exp.)

ps. Richard, I know that you sir are definetly NOT a button pusher!

 

I agree with Richard,He sounds like a pressman not some fresh out of school button pusher with no hands on experience.

Example, I have a video camera with so many features ,I could make a movie. Do I use all these features? No! All I ever use is ON/OFF and record! It's the same thing with all these non- usefull features on some of these new presses. Set the God Damn thing to the center adjustment and print! Forget about trying sound so technical.

Here's and idea and I'll bet Richard will back me up on this one. Start running until your sure that your color is stable. Then speed up your press. If it starts to scum or plug, go up on your water. If it starts to wash out, go down on yor water. If your not sure, get up off your *** and go check the glare on your plate instead of just pushing buttons!

Rod (30 yrs.)

Ps. Us old guys came up using levers and switches and we hate button pushers!

 

Rod you are 100% right I have been into Richard place no button pushers there all the printers are printers if you know what i mean.

 

I had to laugh when a customer asked me if I could disable the automated feeder wheel rack positioner since replacing the failed motor would cost over a thousand dollars. I had to disable the clutch but the feeder operator said he really would not miss it. The automated side blower adjustment is a bit over the top, I think.

These are added to sell to the big decision makers in the front office who will nod approvingly at such phrases as "Fiber optic controlled automated pile centering device". Automated pile centering is useful but what's so magical about fiber optics as compared to simple old microswitches? The manufacturers know the power of buzzwords when presented to executives who have no clue as to the nuts and bolts of down and dirty printing.

To me, the difference between an operator and a pressman is that the pressman can get the job to run when the fancy automation fails. I'm not complaining, I made a good living from repairing labor saving devices. One thing we can be sure of is that in the near future there will be no replacement for the skilled pressman or technician. Of course, "technician" often translates as "parts changer" just as "pressman" often means "button pusher". Parts changing and button pushing are ok but not nearly as rewarding as being able to get a monster 840 running without having to wait for parts. Like my good friend and master mechanic said, "Hell, anybody can fix them with parts".

 

You guys are making me blush now

I guess the craft has been driven out of the trade to a large extent and so when sh•t happens those who didn't undergo a 'proper' apprenticeship or weren't lucky to have an old hand to teach them the trade flounder like a fish out of water.

Example: we had a printer join us to run a 2 colour Sprint - no Komorimatic - every job he tried to produce was either 'caught up' or clearly had been printed with the ink emulsified. Reason: he had only ever run alcohol bareback systems and had no concept of anything else.

One of my mentors when I began in the trade was Fred, an old Polish printer (no relation), whenever I asked him for help with a print problem his approach was always a little unorthodox but invariably correct.

I don't know whether anyone in the Uk remembers an ink by the name of 8000 Red? This ink was so stiff you could impale it on an ink knife, turn it upsidedown and it would just stay put. The result was, if you tried to run it neat, the tack would be so high that the sheets would either tearoff on the blanket or at the very least pick severely on trailing edges.

All the other printers would use commercial tack reducer to not much effect other than scumming, not Fred, he stirred in a little machine oil and the results were amazingly good, no tearing off, no picking, shinier print and no scumming. (OK it took longer to dry but bear in mind in those days jobs weren't so time critical so longer drying wasn't an issue).

The point he made stays with me to this day - sometimes you just have to make a job print. And for that you need a little grey matter between the ears and to have learnt as much as you could from skilled Printers.

 

Sometimes experience can backfire. I learned from some of the older pressman that when the springs holding up the wire bar on the old Komori feeder head failed, one could use rubber bands to hold the bar up until the springs arrived. Later, I was in a shop in New York City which was owned by a rather overly frugal gentleman from Europe. They were having the boken spring problem so I explained to the pressman the rubber band trick. He asked me not to apply the temporary fix because the owner would then just buy him a box of rubber bands and not order the springs.

From then on, whenever I used rubber bands to for an emergency fix, I would personally order the replacement part. I have temporarly repaired a number of the PQC time delay relays in the old "B" and "C" models using this method. You must then make sure the press settles down after turning on the power before switching on the PQC until the new relay is installed.

 

You know that wire bar thing? No one I know has a clue what it's for, I'm guessing it's to put a break in lightweight sheets to help avoid doubles - but I'm not certain. Any enlightenment is appreciated - you're never too old to learn

 

I'm not sure but I thought it was there to prevent the side blower air from escaping through the tail of the sheet. I will ask my friend Bill Collins who has been a demonstrator for over 20 years. He had a lot of training from the factory people.

 

It's a feature of every Komori feederhead I've ever been on, sold or owned.

But none of those had side blowers... soooo?

 

Humm. Side blowers are almost universal on this side of the Atlantic. But presses are configured differently by Komori according to the country for which they are intended.

I just checked with my old friend, Bill Collins; he said that the little bar is to help release the sheets from the suckers when running board. I believe he will be joining the group and will be a valuable resource. He has had over 20 years with Komori and before that was a technician for Crabtree after running his own print shop. His father was in the business as well, so he has printing in his blood. He has recently gone independent and is available mostly in the Northeast U.S. but is willing to travel. He was a close friend of my late brother who started me in the press repair business by having me repair electrical faults on two old Crabtree 40 inch presses at a shop in Louisville where my brother was foreman.

I'm not a pressman, more like the mechanic who tunes the race car but doesn't have much driving skill. My speciality is electronics so I leave the business end of printing to those who know what they are doing. I would never pretend to give any advice or conclusions about getting ink on paper except for some of the most rudimentary aspects. Often, chemistry and other printing problems are misidentifed as being electrical in nature so I have learned a bit about the basics of printing when ruling out electrical faults. On the other hand, I have seen a few cases where doubling was caused by a faulty main motor drive. I've often joked that if the mechanic can't understand a problem, he will declare it to be electrical (which is sometimes the case).

For very difficult printing problems, Komori would often send a demonstrator, a mechanic, and and electrician to the job to hash out the problem. I very much enjoyed those jobs since I would learn about the mechanical and printing end of the business. We never failed to come up with a solution. The interaction of chemistry, mechanical systems, and electrical controls is sometimes difficult to discern and often, a problem resistant to cure is the result of multiple causes.

I notice most of the posts here seem to come from the UK and South America. I hope we can get more North Americans to participate. I have been spreading the word. Though retired, I enjoy offering whatever help I can and would like to pick up a job now and then within a reasonable driving distance. I've always tried to get my customers running first by telephone consultation. Less profitable in the short term, but more efficient and satisfying.

 

Feeder bar mystery solved! Now you say it, it seems obvious...but does that mean my theory is so much doo doo?

Hope Bill joins the forum - it gets a little like tumbleweed junction at times so the more the merrier.

I'm surprised, given the amount of pressmen that have daily 'issues', that more use isn't made of this forum. You ought to check out the prepress forums (b4print.com for example) and see the traffic generated there!

You mention Crabtree...I ran Waite & Saville's, their forerunner, as an apprentice - going on to run the second 4 col K100 prototype in the country (Kestrel 100 B1/40" 14K iph!). Too many stories to tell in one post 'bout that press!

cheers for the info klecman

 

Side blowers.....is that the air blowers that blow the sides of the sheets so they would seperate and go easier to the infeed rollers?

 

Looks like it's a Komori option depending on country of supply.

Thinking back our Sprint 226p had them at the front edge of the feeder. They can be useful in lifting the front edge of the sheet prior to it entering the feed table. Our Lithrone 626 doesn't have them but still feeds great at up 14000iph - to achieve consistent feeding at those speeds you need good paper stock and setting the feeder head correctly.

 

Side Blowers

Yes, they are on most Komori presses delivered to the U.S. and if you get the AMR (Automatic Make Ready) press they move into position by themselves. What a great labor saving device.

I used to joke about when they would come out with an automatic kickey picker, now I hear they have them.

A useful feature would be an automated ink key zero set calibration and I read on the Web that someone has patented one for the Komori. It could be done in the software. A friend was working on one years ago but I don't think he got it working. His approach was to remotely measure the ink film thickness on the ball. The patented approach I believe just drives the keys toward the ball until they stop, then backs off a few microns to get the proper ink film thickness. I don't know if it's available yet but would save a lot of time and sore fingers.

I have had many service calls just to zero set the fountains. Simple but tedious. Another case distinguishing the "button pusher" from a pressman.

 

Klecman.

Yes , you are correct sir. you are defiinetly not a pressman.

Lildaddy

 

Hell, I'm not even a button pusher. I will not start a press with paper in it without a pressman standing by. One electrician (parts changer) I know did that without setting up the delivery properly and mangled about $16,000 worth of gripper bars. I always make it clear when giving technical advice that I am not a pressman. I have seen a number of technicians begin to give printing advice to pressmen of long experience and start to call themselves "demonstrators" I know what I know and I know what I don't know.

You should stand in my shoes when facing a difficult electrical problem and some genius comes up and says "maybe it's a short". I try to know as much as I can about how the machine works because even "pressman" do not have all the answers. I do not know how to print but I have taught many "button pushers" how to zero set a fountain, a task that any qualified pressman should be able to do. I have studied and learned the theory behind printing so that when a pressman tells me he can't find the dry up point, I know what he is talking about. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, in practice, there is.

 

I've made my own side blowers with Loc-line parts. i used a regulator, and some plumbing supplies at a hardware store (pipe adapters, and a ball valve to shut off the air to the blowers). I used the 1/2" hose, some adapters, Y's, magnetic bases, 90 degree elbows and valves to each blower. i hooked it up to our house air. The only thing is you had to manually open and close the air valve, not really a big deal. I guess you tap into you feeder blower, instead of using an air compressor. I didn't want to risk poor sheet separation at the pick-up suckers.

the loc-line can be purchased here.

www.modularhose.com

 

I've seen those. Very neat. I was thinking of picking some up to direct air to my drill press bit when drilling plastic so to prevent the plastic from melting and sticking to the bit. Thanks for the link.

It's very simple to install a 220 volt air valve connected to two legs of the feeder pump power at the contactor. I think Grainger or McMaster has the valves. The sprayer manufacturers have them. There also may be a pair of dry (unused) contacts on the contactor if you wish to use 115 volts. Best to install a fuse in the line near the contactor if powering from 220 volts to prevent any shorts from tripping the pump overload relay or melting the insulation on wire smaller than about #16.

 

that's why i posted the use of grease.....:d