ink problems with t head

Discussion in '1-Color and 2-Color Offset Presses' started by kblack, Feb 12, 2012.

  1. kblack

    kblack Senior Member

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    ok, i do have that printers pride. I might have some plate cleaner. I know there was something there that said plate cleaner but i didn't think that would work and thought maybe that was for metal plates guess didnt know what it was for. I will have to check though.
     
  2. ghuerth

    ghuerth Senior Member

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    The chrome plate and impression cylinders could be treated as the non-image areas of the plate. If you don't want to use it on your plate, don't use it on your cylinders!
     
  3. kblack

    kblack Senior Member

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    Going in to spend a couple hours on cleaning that cyl. today. Could that be part of the reason why im getting a mark on the back side of stock that im running with bleeds.? Or would that not matter.? I noticed that the number 1 roller on the t head is swollen on the edges is there any trick that i can do to help this or do i have to just replace. Thought maybe you guys knew a trick to do without replaceing for awhile. Have noticed also that the ink roller on the main unit the one that bounces back and forth on the tray roller. the bushings on the end of that roller have alot of play so the ink does not transfer evenly have to use a ink knife to keep it even especially when running heavy on 11x17.Plan on replacing them. Next, after i get done printing and it's cleanup time what is the best way of cleaning the press. Ziggy and FFR thought maybe if i asked a bunch of questions in (One Post) it would only be classified as one question and only charged once.:) thanks kb
     
  4. FFR428

    FFR428 Senior Member

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    You'd probably get the marks no matter what. But a clean back cyl is a good thing. I use some HOT water to help loosen the residue which in my cases is mainly dried fountain solution. I also use a razor blade sometimes carefully to shave it off. Just be careful of the chrome finish. I use the blade clamped in a pair of vise grips to extend the reach. And keep the cylinder surface wet as I go. Blades can break as they bend so watch the eyes and go slow! Don't use steel wool or scotch brite as that will scratch the chrome surface. I'd try the advice others have listed first but when I've been in the middle of a job and need to remove back cyl buildup fast gimme that blade. Straight water on a rag also is great to remove paper line residue off the blanket.

    Swollen T head roller all you can do is replace or add a little more overall pressure. In time sitting idle the swelling might go down but used daily not so much. FWIW the rollers in my 3302 are some 8+ years old beat to heck and still lay down a great looking solid. We got the press used 5 years ago cleaned it up and that's it. Forms are swollen on the ends...meh I just run it. As far as washups go I just use some VWM wash and hot water and for color changes a little Easy Street roller cleaned. For drastic color change I always tap in the color and wash it a few times until it's nicey nice.


    Sorry each new post with a question counts so $100 to me $200 to Zig and Gh will let you know what he gets $$$.
     
  5. kblack

    kblack Senior Member

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    As long as i running a tab i forgot one ?. In the delivery part of the press. There is a copper wire that runs from one side of the press to the other. When you open the back gate you can see that it ran across the delivery wheel. That is broke. It doesn't have any plastic coating on it. Its just bare. Can you tell me what that is for. It kinda looks like a ground wire or something.
     
  6. FFR428

    FFR428 Senior Member

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    Just a plain copper wire? I dunno. A old trick the help eliminate static was to use static tinsel wrapped on parts of the feeder and delivery. It might be a old piece of thats been there a while. If it's not connected to anything electric that is. I think some presses had it added it later on as the old multi 1650 we have has one down low under the delivery wheel. After time they just get beat and the tinsel frays and fall off leaving just a wire.
     
  7. kblack

    kblack Senior Member

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    Thats prob what it is. Its not elecrical. I looked at it awile back and it was in tact. Now looking at it to me its just rubbed for so long that it finally freyed in half. Not really copper it does look like tinsel type, about 1/8th to maybe 1/4 in diam.
     
  8. FFR428

    FFR428 Senior Member

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    Yep that could be what it is then. Newer presses sometimes (80's and up) had a actual static eliminator which was a bar that ran across the feeder where the paper is stacked and sometimes on in the delivery end as well. It was electric and helped remove static charges. Some Ryobi 3302's have big static problems where the vaccume pump when hot will create static and blow it into the paper. Much worse when running some light text weight coated papers the first pass through. I have seen the sheets whip and buckle really bad. Static spray spritzed on the feeder board and a ionize tube in the vacc lines help a bit.
     
  9. kblack

    kblack Senior Member

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    Im going to see if i can rig it up again. Don't seem to have a static prob. though. On the front carriage area on the left side of the press there is a L and H knob. or low and high. it is set on low does that have anything to do with the way the paper feed is raised. I know the lever is for text or cover. I run the text on 3 and cover on 4 usually with some minor adjustments. this is on the inside left by the suckers.
     
  10. FFR428

    FFR428 Senior Member

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    I'm not exactly sure there. Maybe Zig or GH can help here but normally there's a raise/lower knob that controls the bail bar and sets paper pile height. Text normally run a bit lower with less blow and suck, cover stock pile higher with more blow and suck. Some direct feed machines have a staionary bail bar that you can change postion on front to back and some have a heavy and lighter weight bars.
     
  11. kblack

    kblack Senior Member

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    ok, when i take the operators side panel off. I have put a little oil on the chains that raise and lower the carriage. Is there any other place that i can lube so the carriage runs up smoothe. It seems like it jumps a bit more than raising smoothe.
     
  12. FFR428

    FFR428 Senior Member

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    The chains get caked with paper, oil and powder residue. A good clean with WD-40 or PB blaster and work each link to it frees up and doesn't kink or bind. Then hand oil. My service tech bud uses heavy gear oil to lube and work it in on bad chains. I use some Mobil One synthetic grease on gears and sometimes use a oil/grease slurry mixed together. The best way is to remove them and soak in press wash, then blow dry with air and lube. But if you get over your head and don't feel comfy taking them off just do by hand on the press best you can. When the chains kink and bind the paper tables can become uneven, skip links and sometimes break.
     
  13. kblack

    kblack Senior Member

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    Yea i can see that happening. These seem to be free and working properly. just thought maybe there was some other place to check, lube etc. It probably happens more if i would put to much paper on the carraige. now i only put 3000 sheets of either 20# or 70#. 500 to 750 sheets of cover.
     
  14. FFR428

    FFR428 Senior Member

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    If you can put your weight on the paper board and it slips down the pins might have snapped or cracked in the assy. You should be able to have a full load of stock on the table with no slippage. Or there might be some other things worn or out of adjustment as well.
     
  15. kblack

    kblack Senior Member

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    ok. well thats the least of my concerns right now. Do you know if there is a counter tucked away somewhere that i would know how many sheets have ran through. I can't see one anywhere just curious if they put them on there. This knob im talking about sits flush against the inside left side of the press by the suckers. about half dollar size.Didn't know if that would help you.Not a big deal it just bugs me cause i don't know what it does. Im sure ziggy or guehrth know.
     
  16. ziggy33

    ziggy33 Senior Member

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    It's a secondary height speed changing knob for your feed table should have a arrow on it and like a H turn it towards the H and it will raise a bit faster it's like the micro adjustment I would check those pins out tho sounds like you need some new ones. Pretty easy fix and something you really should do so you don't have to stop and load up so often on longer runs. They say "Time is money". I usually run my cover stock at about 6 or 7 with the micro cranked up all the way and put a lot of blow on it and text at about 4 or 5. Oh and there is no counter hidden away unless it's by the mother board I have seen a few with one hidden there but more then likely it's gone
     
  17. ghuerth

    ghuerth Senior Member

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    1.Bleeding off the end of a sheet is not recommended normally an oversized sheet can be used on flat sheets and trimmed, but with envelopes your options are: run minimum pressure while printing a good copy and keeping your cylinder conditioned so as not to accept ink due to the moisture it should retain. You are running a 9910 with an enhanced delivery that minimizes buckle on the transfer. The ink would have to be thick enough to spread out to get on your stock.

    2. Swollen roller causes are: residual washes trapped in the roller pores, too much oscillator pressure that causes the rubber to break loose of the shaft and wears roller when dry, dried ink cuffs on the roller ends, and to much roller pressure. I’m sure there is more. Roller hardness should be the consideration for replacement. Oscillator pressure should be a little heavier than form pressure, you don't want the plate driving the form roller you want the oscillator driving the form. Rollers can be reground but on duplicators it is cheaper to replace. The #1 roller is Syntac part # 51711 and #2 form roller and water form are #51710. The ink ductor roller is replacement part #51730 and water ductor roller and the 2 transfer rollers are #51750, the geared transfer #51721. That’s all of them. Pull out your ductor rollers and oscillators and grab hold of the transfer rollers and try to lift up and down making sure bearings are not bad. Cheaper than replacing rollers and come to find out it was the bearings the whole time, and a bad bearing will allow oscillators hangers to pop off shaft. Ink ductor levers are harder to change than bearings. The T-51 part number is 1503 ductor arm 2 each and 1504 ductor latch 2 each. It is the same for ink and water systems.

    3. The bearings on the main unit ductor lever are easy to replace with the right tool. You need a snap ring pliers with a 90° angle to remove it from the lever and install the new one ABDick part number 84421. The pliers are supplied with T-Heads when bought new.

    4. Wash ups; do you have a cleanup attachment or do you use mats? Are you using low VOC washes or hot washes? Do you rinse with water? Are you using hard tap water or distilled water? R/O (Reverse Osmosis) water is just as good as distilled. With hard waters you should use a calcium and surfactant remover. Surfactants build up over time with low VOC washes.

    5. Should be plenty of room on your 9810 to shave your cylinder. Emphasize shave like your face don’t scratch the cylinder. Follow with the previously discussed cylinder cleaning. Refrain from abrasive pads.

    6. Solvents to remove ink residue and warm water to dissolve the water-soluble dried solutions and paper residual dissolves with water.

    7. 3302 presses have more than your two form rollers.

    8. I use INK-EZ white magic wash for wash-ups and INK-EZ 0-VOC wash for a good deep cleaning. I always use water or roller rinse (INK-EZ KLEEN). Seldom have to do a color wash when going to lighter ink color.

    9. We also use INK-EZ roller deglazer. Rollers feel nice and velvety.

    10. Try putting Easy Street on a portion of the blanket and see what it does? I've never tried it but when I was a pressman a Multi Tech from AM said it swelled the rollers. I use to see it every where when doing a service call, but not much lately I see a lot of old tubes sqeezed out. I'll have to check to see if it's still available.

    11. To remove static, static tinsel (VANSON product inch in diameter) is (a) take an 18” length strand and wrap it around the weight bar all the way across from end to end this found on the feed end. This helps double sheet problems with sheet generating static from the weight bar, but without weight bar registration suffers. On the delivery end look just before the gear you will see a chrome strip about an inch and a half long with a 45° angle with a small hole to insert the 18” long static eliminator line. Pull thru and twist the ends at both sides. This helps for a controlled delivery stack allowing the sheet to float all the way down to the jogger.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2012
  18. ghuerth

    ghuerth Senior Member

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    12. ABDick 360 table raise gear has one speed when raising the table. The gear pawl draws back and pushes the gear to raise your feed table. The 9810 has twice as many teeth and can make the table raise at a slower rate like when you feed envelopes and some operaters push the table release lever on and off to stop the table from coming up to high. There are other ways. The setting will use each tooth to slow down rate of table raise or skip every other tooth depending on stock thickness.Most stocks work well at the faster settings.
    13. There are no total impression counter on ABDick 9800 or older series.
     
  19. FFR428

    FFR428 Senior Member

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    You know G someone else had mentioned that about Easy Street too. So I put it to the test. They said to put a dab on the blanket and leave it for a while. I did and left it for a hour and nothing happened other than it cleaned the spot on the blanket. Hmmm so I took it a step further and left a dab on 2 old different make blankets (Ryobi and Dayco) for 24 hrs. Same result...nothing except it cleaned the spot where it sat very well. I can only think some lower budget or inferior blankets might react to the cleaner as you noted. But I have not seen it myself. FWIW.
     

  20. kblack

    kblack Senior Member

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    That lime away worked really well, spent an hour on it and what a diff. There is one more knob i would like to know. On the operators side in the back by the red emergency shut off there is a long thin knob that kinda looks like a dipstick. I looks like it turns but don't know what it is. Beside the gate that you pull down to get at the bottom cyl. thanks kb
     
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