IDEAL 4810/5210 manual needed or help with problem

Hi

I have the 5210 version of the 4810/5210 old Ideal Guillotine. The wiring diagram is dated 1.7.81. I had some problems with the brake (old style) which I resolved by resetting the shoes. But now the guillotine is not cutting. When the twin actuators are pressed the motor starts. It almost seems as though the machine trying to lift the cutting blade rather than bringing it down to cut.

I am retuired and use the guillotine for personal projects and cannot afford to replace it!
I do not know whether the problem is electrical or mechanical.
I have taken the plate off at the front so I can get at the electrical components but do not have enough knowledge to diagnose the problem.
I have attached the wiring diagram - it might be useful to someone else
Also attached are three images showing the electrical components and one showing the mechanical rod connecting the motor drive to the guillotine mechanism. When the two actuators are pressed the bar shown on the left of that image rises up and then stops.

It does not sound as though there is any problem with the motor.
Thanks in advance for any help

David
ps since posting this I have reloaded the mechanical rod image after enhancing it to show the rod and movement more clearly.

 

Update - Partial solution - Spares supplies needed

If you look at the right hand side of the mechanism there is a relay. The relay is triggered by mechanical movement of the bent arm (shown in the image to the right of the upward arrow) bearing against the relay's activating slider which projects leftwards towards the arm from the body of the relay. The arm is itself moved by the substantial rod shown just to the right of the arrow in the image.

I placed an insulated lever in between the arm and the slider to firmly push in the the slider. This gives a partial success because it reset the mechanism and the Guillotine now operates normally..

Howwver careful testing shows the relay is failing intermittently due to wear in the slider. In the circumstances it would be good to replace both relays which are triggered by the rod.

Does anyone know who might stock those spares?

Thanks
David

 

Further info re spares

I have now attached photos of the two relays for which I need replacements. Hope somone can point me in the right direction
Thanks
David

 

Parts required

Hi , It may be too late but anyway, Those are switches not relay's, They are the home switches for the Knife both top and bottom.
They can be bought from Morgana.co.uk, I am a techie and I do a lot of work on these machines.

 

i have a problem with mine which seems that even though the motor is turning, its at the point between the teeth on the bottom big pulley and i can figure out how to get it back, is there a way to manually put the blade down and reset the cogs?

 

VERY carefully yank the round bar towards the right while tapping on the black button of the contactor. This will inch the teeth back together.

 

fixed it, i had to replace one of the contactors (is that what theyre called) and now working lovely again

 

While this is an older thread I found a used 4810 on craigslist for $400 bucks. I needed a new down switch and found it and other parts are still available at:J SNELL & CO INC
156 MENDELL ST
SAN FRANCISCO, CA 94124, USA
Phone: 415-206-7700

www.jsnell.com

Best of luck! Troy San Andreas Print Shop

 

please reach me: ercupa@netscape.net

1 robe2

 

Similar problem, need help

I too have problems with my machine. Here are the symptoms:

• 
  When I turn the key, only a slight buzzing sound can be heard. No lights, no movement if I press the actuator buttons.

• 
  If I manually turn the clamp down, and then press the clamp-up-button goes up

• 
  The relay does not activate, but if I use a bit of cardboard and push the relay, the orange lamp on the left lights up. If I press any actuator button the relay deactivates and the lamp goes out

• 
  The wheel has not gone all the way back so the lever does not touch the black switch. If I use a bit of cardboard and press it in, the two lamps by the blade light up, and a buzzing sound from close to / or the actual engine. No movement if I press any buttons.

Here are a few images showing what I described above.




Where do I start?

 

No one?
I removed the switches for knife up and down and measured their resistance and they both seem to work properly.
Could it possibly be this relay? When I turn the key it seems it tries to close but doesn't. If I force it down with a wooden stick, one of the relays click together and stays that way, the other I need to hold down. If I press any of the knife-buttons, they de-click (sorry for bad english, hope you understand anyway)