Ideal 4700 Manual Guillotine cutting problem

[mrjono]

Hi,

I've recently acquired a second hand Ideal 4700 Manual Guillotine. It cuts well along the length of the cut, but if I try to cut a stack of paper (anything more than 3-4mm high) then it cuts diagonally down the stack, so that the bottom sheet is much narrower than the top sheet, if that makes sense.

The stack comes out looking like this:

-----
------
-------
--------
---------

I just trimmed a stock of business cards 40mm high and the bottom card was 4mm narrower than the top one!

I don't have a manual for the machine and I cannot seem to find one online. Is there a setting I can adjust? It's my first guillotine so I'm a complete notice. Any help would be amazing.

Thanks

 

[xfactor printing]

I don't have a manual for the machine

The manual is sparse, but this is the manual which ships with the machine:
http://www.mbmcorp.com/pdfs/zo_0027.pdf

Is the blade sharp?
Either there is something major going on, or the clamp isn't holding the stack from slipping as the blade comes down.
Small sheets will be harder to hold firm than where there is a larger area of the clamp to hold the item from slipping and more contact with the guide.

 

[mrjono]

The blade appears to be sharp, it feels sharp and goes through the paper just fine. And the clamp is definitely not slipping at all.

The cards I cut the other day were small, business card size, but I still think that something is going seriously wrong for the cut to be that far out. I've attached a pic to show you how bad it is:

I just measured the cards. The one on top of the stack is 46mm wide, the bottom card is 53mm wide! I really need to fix this problem asap!

 

[xfactor printing]

Something is definitely wrong. Sorry, which way is the wedge facing - towards the front or sideways?

 

[mrjono]

The wedged side is the cut edge and the opposite, straight side was against the back-stop.

 

[plotter]

the blade is NOT sharp, and you really need to clamp the paper down as hard as possible.

 

[Slimline Jonic]

Cutting out of true

Your cutting problem looks to me to be caused by the guillotine blade bending outwards as it cuts through your card stock. I believe this to be a problem with all guillotines to a greater or lesser extent. As the blade cuts through the stack of material, the waste or off-cut, falls away from the decending blade with the clamped stock forming a near rigid wall that the blade rubs against all the way down to the bottom of the cutting stroke. There is no lattitudinal pressure on the off-cut side of the blade but there is some pressure on the blade from the clamped stock. If the blade isn't rigid enough it will bend out in the direction of the off-cut. Even industrial guillotines with their massive construction and very thick blades show signs of this movement albeit only about a tenth of a millimetre on a 130 millimetre stack.
I can't tell from the instruction manual diagrams, that "xfactor printing" kindly posted, if your "Ideal 4700" has a slicing action when cutting or if the blade just cuts vertically. If the blade just cuts vertically, the bending effect during a cut will be worse. The manual states that the machine can cut a 40mm stack. That may be so for paper and some bending will still occur. Sometimes machine specs can be misleading. Just think - the speedometer on your car has a top speed marked on it - do you think that you could ever get your car to reach that speed? You are cutting business cards, probably 100 at a time, and your stock will probably be high quality solid white uncoated card. This stuff is fabulous but it's as tough as old boots so I wouldn't be surprised if it offered more pressure against the blade from the clamped stock in your machine than other materials would.
I think you will have to cut stacks a lot less than 40mm thick. Try 10mm and place them as close to the pivot point where the cutting lever joins the blade (the opposite end to the handle you use to operate the machine). At this point the blade should be held by the connecting parts of the mechanism and shouldn't bend as much. Hope this helps you!

 

[FSA]

mrjono
it's a used peice of equipment, don't asume everything is tict-it-dee boo. Sharpen the blade, grab the back gate and make sure that it is tight, if you have worn out gibs you will have problems. If the previous owner slammed paper into the back gate all the time it may not be 90 degrees anymore. Put some NCR stock in it and clamp it at full pressure it should transfer a clamp image a good half inch down in the pile or more, if not there is another problem.
FSA

 

[Novaro]

the blade is NOT sharp, and you really need to clamp the paper down as hard as possible.

That's true, I agree...

 

[Michael4]

Am i the only one who thinks 40mm is a bit much to cut at one time (especially 100/120# cover)?

I'm not too familiar with this machine type , but maybe cutting half that would have a much better result.
And I'll repeat this for a 4th time:

Make sure clamp pressure is adequate
Make sure blade is sharp
Make sure paper is packed and square

 

[Jeff]

For what it's worth, I usually cut 1 1/2" of kromekote or 2 to 2 1/2" of uncoated 20/24# at a time on my 4850-95 EP