How to print deep blue

Discussion in '4-Color Offset Presses +' started by generalbatzorig, Jan 23, 2012.

  1. generalbatzorig

    generalbatzorig Member

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    Hello Printers,
    I am not a printer nor in printing industry, but I am an inexperienced graphic designer. I need an advise on how to print a very deep blue color on offset printing. I am doing a catalog for an artist who uses this deep cobalt blue color. His technique of applying the color is very special, so when seen with human eye it is very illuminating. RGB display can imitate the optical effect of his blue colors decently, but numerous trials on different publications show that offset printing can't get anywhere close to the original color by the artist. Sometimes it gets muddy grayish blue, but sometimes it gets more to the purple side with a lot of magenta in it.
    If you want to get an idea of what kind of art I am talking about, you may visit
    www.chimeddorj.com (Note: most of the photos on the web site may be below standard)

    The reason is that process cyan, magenta and a bit of black can't really create a pure Cobalt Blue (besides the light transmitting effect of the medium). So I was thinking if there was a way to add fifth printing plate with a pure blue color from Pantone Solid Colors. That way the Spot Pantone blue that is closest to the artist's color will act as a base and CMYK color will add necessary shades depending on the situation.
    Does it sound reasonable? Does any one think it will work? I need your opinions or expertise. Thanks a lot.
     
  2. plotter

    plotter Senior Member

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    there is no reason that you cant add it as an extra pantone colour, obviously the printing price would go up from a 4 colour to 5 colour. if however it is a big solid i prefer to lay a halftone behind it 1st, then put the solid down. i know its extra work but depends on the size of the solid and the size of machine (rolling power) its being printed on, which could take it up to 6 colour.. in corel if the solid is put in and when colour seps is on the print preview should automatically give this the 5th plate.
     
  3. turbotom1052

    turbotom1052 Senior Member

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    You mention that you intend to print the job offset but you make no mention of what sort of stock you intend to print it on. My recommendation would be to try printing the images on a gloss stock with good holdout and then soften everything up with a coat of satin aqueous coating. The high holdout of the gloss coated stock will allow you to come closer using the cmyk palette. It may take you a couple of rounds of color correction and proofing but i didnt see a single image on your link that couldnt be matched reasonably close with cmyk. If all else fails you could go with 5th color touch plate as you described but it will be hard to accurately proof. You may wind up having to mess with various colors on press to achieve what you're looking for if you wind up going the 5th color route. Good luck and let us know how you make out.
     
  4. Paul Cavanaugh

    Paul Cavanaugh Senior Member

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    I have to agree with Tom, after looking at the blues from the website used in some of the artists renderings I see no reason these could not be reproduced with typical CMYK. A good prepess department would be needed to make separations as these are more than likely not in a digital format. This would be the key first step. Once on press, if it has Image Control or Inpress (Heidelberg) matching the color and keeping it consistant should be a walk in the park.

    Looking at the website I could not tell if there is any gloss due to the paintings being done with oils or water, if there is depending on the gloss level desired you could go either aqueous or UV.

    All in all, the works should be able to be reproduced on an offset printing press.
     
  5. voughnmartinfuji

    voughnmartinfuji Previous User

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    All modern printers need there to be black and colour cartridges, containing ink, to print.
     
  6. generalbatzorig

    generalbatzorig Member

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    Thanks for all who replyed to my question. At the same time I am sorry for showing you not very good examples on the web site. I have to tell that those images on the web site have been taken "not professionally" and probably couldn't represent the true effects of the artist's canvas colors. Some of those website images have been used from CMYK files. One has to see the real works to see the difference of the colors. When I take the digital photos and load it to my computer, I can see how different it looks from the original paintings. I guess the human eye perceives the colors a little differently than the digital camera renderings. Most of the time, the blue becomes lighter in tone in digital camera.

    Here is an example of picture that is a little better than the web site examples. What I am trying to say is that. It is difficult to capture the color effect 100% in digital camera. Then, the effect further degrades when printed. I have seen examples of the artist's works printed in Korea, Japan, Germany, China etc. Although, some of them comparably better than others, the optical effect of the blue medium is still not there. That is why I am wondering if adding the fifth solid color could make the printed copies better.
    [​IMG]
     
  7. generalbatzorig

    generalbatzorig Member

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    Example Image

    Sorry for the previous mistake. I am attaching an image file. I hope it works. Please see the attachment.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. plotter

    plotter Senior Member

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    i cant see why there would be a problem printing this personally, i did however once print some christmas cards for an 'Artist' in pantone 032 red, when she came to collect the red wasnt quite red enough.... lol i threw the whole job on the incinerator and told her to go elsewhere... kept the workshop warm i suppose... she did see a pantone swatch before i went to print and agreed it... some people eh????
     
  9. graphix emporium

    graphix emporium Member

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    Print it on a pearlescent face stock, lay down a blue PMS spot colour, reverse out other areas and lay down an opaque solid white base with your process colours over the solid white to achieve the luminescent result you are seeking in the blue areas only
     
  10. printchesco

    printchesco Member

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    Have you tried this? C=100, M=80, Y=0, K=40
     
  11. generalbatzorig

    generalbatzorig Member

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    Gloss vs Coated paper

    What is the difference between Gloss and Coated papers? Aren't they the same thing? If they are different, which is better in rendering colors?

    Thanks.
     
  12. turbotom1052

    turbotom1052 Senior Member

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    coated papers are just that. part of the manufacturing process includes finishing the paper with a coating that renders the paper surface smooth. There are different types of coated sheets. Going from a cast coated sheet like Kromecoat which will offer a very high gloss and smooth finish on down to a matte coated sheet which although smooth to the touch has no gloss at all. There are also various levels of gloss in between the 2 extremes i mentioned. The glossiest of the coated papers usually has the best ink holdout. Holdout is the sheets ability to allow the ink to lay right on the surface making for very precise and saturated reproductions. A dull or matte coated sheet still offers a limited amount of ink holdout and lends itself well to accurate image reproduction without the shiny, industrial feel of a gloss coated sheet. It will also allow text to be read easier because your eyes will not be distracted with glare from the paper. What many are doing these days is to print the job on a gloss stock that will offer that high holdout and accurate reproduction and then soften everything up with a satin coating.
     
  13. ilovedesign

    ilovedesign Previous User

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    I’m not sure why you are having a problem with the colors when it’s printed. How is the image being put into the computer? Are you scanning it? In that case could it maybe be the quality scanner you are using? Or is it a photo of the picture? As a painter myself I have found that a lot of my art looks best if I take the picture of it outside. Just something about sunlight vs artificial light and scanning looks better in my opinion.
     
  14. ziggy33

    ziggy33 Senior Member

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    To many times have I had "artists" come in order prints pick the color I match it exactly and they just ***** cuz its not right so now I just say pay up front
     
  15. generalbatzorig

    generalbatzorig Member

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    Thanks for answering my question. But I have another question from you. The Blue colors in the paintings are not made of solid application of one color, but the blues have very delicate nuances in it like translucent watercolors. However the blue is a lot more saturated in overall strength than watercolor because it is acrylic color with unique technique of paint application. I have attached an example image below.

    My main question is: In your opinion, how should I separate the fifth color? I am guessing I need to do it myself in Photoshop.
     
  16. knl

    knl New Member

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    there's only 2 colours to form the blue that you wanted ... Cyan and Magenta , there isnt any yellow or black for the background blue ...

    for the looks of it , print on Fancy/Coated Textured Paper other than conventional types.

    Good luck
     
  17. Norris

    Norris Previous User

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    The Deep blue Leeds currently run large format poster print machines in house which enables us to offer a range of large format poster print services at prices unparalleled by most other bureaus.

    We are happy to print all poster sizes from a3 posters, a2 posters, a1 Posters up to a0 posters at fantastic prices, a2 poster printing is our most popular printing product and Deepblue is able to offer savings on multiple a2 poster printing between 10 and 1000.
     
  18. Aprint Avist

    Aprint Avist Member

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    Hi printchesco, I tried with your formula, but what color is it ! but when i reduced K to 20% it seemed nice, even nicer when C=100, M=100 and K=20. A slight black touch to C100+M50 results marvelous.
     
  19. generalbatzorig

    generalbatzorig Member

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    I saw Pantone Process Guide Coated, and that formula is there. But it doesn't look like the artist's color. And there many other blue shades and none looks like the pure blue of the artist's color. If you take a look at the paint straight from a tube of French ultramarine or Cobalt Blue Deep and compare it to any blue on the Process Color Guide, you will see the difference. Otherwise it is hard to explain.
     

  20. pressman57

    pressman57 Senior Member

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    This is an expensive debacle waiting to happen IMHO. Have the artist pick a pantone color and do a fifth color.
     
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