Heidelberg GTO 52-2 4KW main motor problem

[kluth67]

Hi to everyone! You're doing a fantastic job in this forum. We face a problem with repairment of a Heidelberg GTO 52-2. We are an electrical and electronic Lab undertake the project to fix the electronics that power a 4 KW DC brushless motor .
I am talking about the main motor of the press. It is an EC permanent magnet or BLDC motor, with an electric brake and an encoder with Hall sensors.
This motor is driven by an inverter which consist of two main boards, HSK board which is the logic board and a KLM 4 which is the power board.
The KLM 4 board was burned and was not possible to be repaired and we decided to replace it with a used one with the same part number.
After this replacment everything is powered up, no fuses or MCB is tripping.

• The motor ( stand alone not connected to the press) do not start either Forward or Backward and a buzzing noise is coming from the motor. ==>When a slight hand turning force is applied on the axis ,the motor starts and full speed or inching in both directions is achieved.

After that we search the manual and decided to change home position of the encoder . The oroginal position was marked by two red marks, see attached photo, set at the far left point ( we are not sure if it was done at factory). We found relativeley easy a new position that the motor starts as soon as the FWD or BWD buttons are pressed. The new home position is almost to the center of the available space. What is strange to us is that from that point and to the right the effect on automatic start is the same.We thought that everything is ok.
But when we attached the belt and connect the press to the motor we realize that the press is working but in reverse direction!!! ( starting the motor in FWD (printing operation) is turning anticlockwise as facing the motor axis from the belt side / or towards somebody facing the press from the motor side ( belt on the right as somebody is looking the motor)
These motors cannot change direction of rotation by just swapping two of the three supply phases

• Could you please note the motor direction of rotation in FWD ( printing operation)?
• Does any body face a similar situation?
• Is it possible to change the starting rotation direction by reajusting the encoder?
• Any other suggestion is welcomed

Thank you in advance and wish all the best

 

[Mathew]

The encoder position is not correct. Unscrew the 4 bolts and turn it to clock 1. Then slightly turn it clockwise unit you find the correct position and tight the screws. There is only few degrees for fine adjustment.

 

[kluth67]

Dear Mr. Mathew thank you for the quick response. From your answer I didnt understand if it is possible to reverse the direction of the motor rotation by setting a new home posistion. On the above photo the red marks are the setting as we received the motor. On the next photo the white mark / arrow to the right is the new home position we found.

 

[kluth67]

I would like also to add some information. From the wiring digram the contactors K244, K6 ( 13,14) FWD , K245 BWD,K7 (13,14).
On the next photo in the red circle are the contacts responsible for the direction of motor rotation. To be honest with you we didnt check if somebody change them for any reason . Anybody try something similar?

 

[Adil]

The red position of screw is the best for running , just dismount zncoder and check cables if one of them is corrumpt

 

[kluth67]

Dear Mr. Adil, thank you for the reply. On the red position the motor do not start automatically. On the new posotion, white arrow it does. The cables of the encoder were checked and they are ok. To resume our proplem again, the motor starts automatically but in reverse direction. Speed and inching is possible in two directions. The result is that no paper is feeded and the cylinder turn in direction that is not possible for the paper to be caught by the next cylinder..I will try to take a video and post it

 

[kluth67]

I had the video but the size is large, 23 MB, and could not be uploaded. Does anybody using this machine any more to compare the direction of rotation at least??? Thanks a lot

 

[Color Printing Forum Admin]

If you want to include your video with a post, you can upload it to www.youtube.com and include the youtube link in a post.

 

[CHOCK]

Dear Sir:

Heidelberg , and any manufacturer of motor, is a conventional deal for IEEE, always use the clockwise rotation.

If you have the anticlockwise rotation, please interchange in the 3 phases system, R-S-T : T vs R o.k

Thank you in advance, sincerely.

Blessing
@ing_dr

 

[kluth67]

Dear Mr Chock,
Thank you for your reply. Clockwise rotation as we see the motor axis of a motor where the mechanical load is connected? On your suggestion , reversing of any two phases work pretty on AC induction motor, in our case the motor is DC permanent magnet having hall sensors involved in the direction of rotation. As I write above we have tried this with no result. On the following photo the red arrow shows the direction of rotation when selecting printing or inching forward , which is not correct because no paper is feeded...

 

[CHOCK]

However if your motor is DC, please reverte the rotation as follow:

Connect the + terminal with wire Positive and - terminal with the Negative , Normally : Wire Red is Positive and Negative is Black !!!

Let me know, please

 

[kluth67]

The motor is BLDC { brush less DC motor, known also as EC ( electronically commutated} permanent magnet motor) working with 3 pulsating DC phases through an inverter . Photo below .

Thanks a lot

 

[kluth67]

FYI , from Heidelberg manual

 

[CHOCK]

Hi sir;

The ID plate for the Motor, is shown the motor is 3 phases Y, that mean that you can change the rotation by interchanging the 3 phases L1+L2+L3; L1 in L3 and L3 in L1. and brake is 24Vdc

By other sides you must see if the terminals of main motor has 3 terminal U V W., Because you can change the rotation too, int U in W, and W in U.

The fact for Main drive brushless direct current, mean the IGBT (Power transistor with rectifier bridges), changes the current for feed the IGBT, and then feed the terminals converter for Main Motor terminal to U V W.

Let me know.

 

[kluth67]

Dear Mr. Chock, Thank you for your reply, really apreciated. BLDC or EC Permanent magnet motor do not change direction by just changing two of the phases. To be honest I tried it but the motor refuse to start and a buzzing noise is coming out. The explanation from the theory about this motors follows :

"To reverse the default motor direction of a BLDC motor you must reverse two of the Hall sensor wires and the correct pair of the Phase wires (only one of the three phase wire swap options will work correctly).14 Sept 2016"
1. https://www.google.com/search?q=rev...&ie=UTF-8#kpvalbx=_yqoeZOPeB9KdkdUPhd-6qAI_40
2. https://www.bldcmotor.org/how-to-run-a-bldc-motor-in-forward-and-reverse.html
3. https://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.p...efault motor,swap options will work correctly).

 

[CHOCK]

ok, if you believe that try to do it.

However but i believe the Pcb Of his board is defective, by that reason, NOT work, since some electronic components like IGBT +bridge rectifier, is defective.

In normal condition, you must take out the Hall sensor, and probe if really the motor change the rotation o.k ?. This is a design from any universal motor of the world, it does not matter if has permanent magnet, brushless, or normal motor. Is the theory and practice of Engineering Electric.

 

[kluth67]

To summarize the fault and what we have done till now:

• Heidelberg GTO 52-2 , main motor 4 KW EC permanent magnet, driven by KLM 4 ( power module) and HSK ( logik board)boards
• KLM 4 board was burned, replaced with another one the same part number
• We managed to start the machine automatically only after changing the home position ( see fotos above)
• The machine now starts but in reverse direction, speed control is possible to this direction. Plus inching in both directions is also possible ( this answer the question if the motor can change direction of rotation).
• Reversing supply phase pairs do not reverse direction

 

[Adil]

I think that yoi have issie on klm board

 

[diegoeze]

Hi are you sure KLM is 4 ? Must... Be klm7.5 .... Anyway you have to check led in KLM module that is for diagnostic fault

 

[Good_part]

Hi to everyone! You're doing a fantastic job in this forum. We face a problem with repairment of a Heidelberg GTO 52-2. We are an electrical and electronic Lab undertake the project to fix the electronics that power a 4 KW DC brushless motor .
I am talking about the main motor of the press. It is an EC permanent magnet or BLDC motor, with an electric brake and an encoder with Hall sensors.
This motor is driven by an inverter which consist of two main boards, HSK board which is the logic board and a KLM 4 which is the power board.
The KLM 4 board was burned and was not possible to be repaired and we decided to replace it with a used one with the same part number.
After this replacment everything is powered up, no fuses or MCB is tripping.

• The motor ( stand alone not connected to the press) do not start either Forward or Backward and a buzzing noise is coming from the motor. ==>When a slight hand turning force is applied on the axis ,the motor starts and full speed or inching in both directions is achieved.

After that we search the manual and decided to change home position of the encoder . The oroginal position was marked by two red marks, see attached photo, set at the far left point ( we are not sure if it was done at factory). We found relativeley easy a new position that the motor starts as soon as the FWD or BWD buttons are pressed. The new home position is almost to the center of the available space. What is strange to us is that from that point and to the right the effect on automatic start is the same.We thought that everything is ok.
But when we attached the belt and connect the press to the motor we realize that the press is working but in reverse direction!!! ( starting the motor in FWD (printing operation) is turning anticlockwise as facing the motor axis from the belt side / or towards somebody facing the press from the motor side ( belt on the right as somebody is looking the motor)
These motors cannot change direction of rotation by just swapping two of the three supply phases

• Could you please note the motor direction of rotation in FWD ( printing operation)?
• Does any body face a similar situation?
• Is it possible to change the starting rotation direction by reajusting the encoder?
• Any other suggestion is welcomed

Thank you in advance and wish all the best
View attachment 12604

Please make sure the KLM4 you replaced was for GTO52-2.though it’s the same part number, it won’t work if you use the KLM4 which is from the blower cabinet of CD102. Enclose is our KLM4 for GTO52-2