GTOZ-S 52 2 Colour Main Motor Error

Discussion in 'Heidelberg Printing Presses' started by cubecube, Jul 22, 2021 at 1:03 AM.

  1. cubecube

    cubecube Member

    Joined:
    Thursday
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Hi
    I am new to this forum. Hope every one is well.
    I have a Heidelberg GTO52Z-S 2C.
    It seems motor does not move, only can move a bit (~1cm)when pressing front / back sometime, not always moves.
    We have consulted a former Heidelberg technician and he advised us to buy a motor encoder and it did not work. And he advised us to purchase the main motor because it is out of magnetism after checked. We bought one second hand, however it still does not work as well. Then he eye checked all PCB and found no burn of electronics visaully. He than suggested us to change all electronics for the TTK board because he felt some areas of the TTK is very hot and it is unusal. Under the COVID-19, business is no good. We are not sure further to this step is correct. There is no second hand of the TTK board (same part number) availbale for testing. Really confused and frustrated. Hope somebody can advise how to do as some more opinions. Your value opinion may help us to stay until business is recovered later maybe.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. CHOCK

    CHOCK Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2016
    Messages:
    2,021
    Location:
    Managua,Nicaragua
    Hi sir;
    I can understand his problem.

    However you must test the following;
    1)*Check:
    Short circuit in frame circuit. Escape to the mass of the engine
    *Check:
    Part of the power converter can not be synchronized with the mains power . Test the input L1+L2+L3 if they are in Tolerance 10% up or down.

    and test the oupt for BLT ; U+V+W for the Main Motor, if they are Voltage !!!!!!, look for the brake control( clean very well!!).

    2) TTK, in BLT is coming with Green LED FOR MONITORING Power supply, must be LIT!!!!!!!
    3) Test the Fuse in TTI for 1.6Amp for control Chopper Power supply !!!
    4)Test the Fuse 3.15 for control of brake control!!!!!
    5) Clean all BLT for dry+colder joint solder, and clean very well.

    Good luck
     
    cubecube likes this.
  3. cubecube

    cubecube Member

    Joined:
    Thursday
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Hi Chock
    Thank you so much for your advice.
    (I remember that we had the same issue few years ago and one of the technicians changed position of L1,L2 and L3, I guessed, not really remember)
    We will ask to follow your instruction one by one and see if there is good news.
    At least we and the technician actually want to fix it with no doubt.
    Will come back to you if there is any updates.
    It is GMT +8 in HK, there may be delay in replying posts. Sorry for the inconvenience caused.
    BR
    cubecube
     
  4. CHOCK

    CHOCK Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2016
    Messages:
    2,021
    Location:
    Managua,Nicaragua
    ok, Not a problem

    Let me know, when you interchange the L1 +l2+l3 the effect , is change of motor rotation, in clockwise vs anticlockwise. Will Not be the problem, that you have, only for to change the Rotation Motor.

    Please test the Input of L1+l2+l3 must be in 10% up or down o.k?? and see if there are output in U+V+W in 10% too tolerance Up or down for main motor terminals. ok???

    Do it carefully.

    Let me know, any doubt
     
  5. Waqas_zahid

    Waqas_zahid Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 2011
    Messages:
    168
    Location:
    Pakistan
    Hi cubecube,

    The error codes do indicate a problem with the motor encoder and that the motor current is not compatible with the press, if you have already replaced the main motor and the encoder then the problem is for sure with the BLT, may be you can try have it repaired? I hope the encoder was installed correctly and only the sensor part of the encoder was changed and not the metal disc itself.

    The picture you shared is for the latest errors?
     
  6. CHOCK

    CHOCK Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2016
    Messages:
    2,021
    Location:
    Managua,Nicaragua
    Hi Sir:

    Proceed With my Steps.

    Let me know ASAP

    Blessing
     
  7. cubecube

    cubecube Member

    Joined:
    Thursday
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Thank you Waqas
    It is the latest error after replacement of a second hand motor.
     
  8. cubecube

    cubecube Member

    Joined:
    Thursday
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Hi Chock
    We have test the following;
    1)*Check:
    Short circuit in frame circuit. Escape to the mass of the engine (all lives are 220v)
    *Check:
    Part of the power converter can not be synchronized with the mains power . Test the input L1+L2+L3 if they are in Tolerance 10% up or down.
    L1 = 107.6v, L2 = 107.3v, L3 = 108v

    and test the oupt for BLT ; U+V+W for the Main Motor, if they are Voltage !!!!!!, look for the brake control( clean very well!!).
    U = 15.3v, V = 15.3v, W = 15.3v

    2) TTK, in BLT is coming with Green LED FOR MONITORING Power supply, must be LIT!!!!!!!
    Yes, Green LED lit

    3) Test the Fuse in TTI for 1.6Amp for control Chopper Power supply !!!
    1.6Amp fuse works

    4)Test the Fuse 3.15 for control of brake control!!!!!
    3.15Amp fuse works

    5) Clean all BLT for dry+colder joint solder, and clean very well.
    - not clean it yet and examined cold solder joint, should I unplug all connections and take it out?
     

    Attached Files:

  9. cubecube

    cubecube Member

    Joined:
    Thursday
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Here is spec images of both main motors
     

    Attached Files:

  10. CHOCK

    CHOCK Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2016
    Messages:
    2,021
    Location:
    Managua,Nicaragua
    Hi sir,
    Sorry for my delay, i was in USA 6 weeks , in different States visiting to my family, but yesterday a night come back to my country Managua, Nicaragua, Central America.

    1) you have a problem with the frame to ground

    2) What is the voltage input for the machine?? if you have 220Vac example, between LI+L2 must be 220Vac, and each phase NOT 103.2¿¿

    3) The output for U+V+W IS WRONG AND FAULTY, ???? You must have the same Voltage has you have in the ID plate of Main Motor o.k???
    4) Measure U+V+W from BLT, with the terminals of main motor Out, AND SEE the Voltage, if the voltage is NOT o.k according with the ID plate of main motor, the BLT is faulty.
    5) However if the voltage is according with the ID plate of main motor, you have faulty the main motor, time to go to repair for maintenance. replace ball bearing, lube, and Put Varnis in the internal winding. !

    6) Look carefully for Dry+ solder joint in the BLT electronic board+TTK , carefully, reheating all solder, is my strong Recommendation. !
     
  11. cubecube

    cubecube Member

    Joined:
    Thursday
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Hi Chock
    2) the machine is marked as 380V and HK voltage is 220v.
    I asked a friend he is familiar with household electricity to measure the voltages as I do not know where is ground.
    We measured L1, L2, L3 by pointing L1,L2 and L3 and the earth cable. Same measurement for U+V+W. (as attached)
    He said it is strange for L1, L2 and L3 in 105v rather than 220v.
    ID plate from main motor is uploaded below.
    Did we do something wrong?
    BR
     

    Attached Files:

  12. CHOCK

    CHOCK Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2016
    Messages:
    2,021
    Location:
    Managua,Nicaragua
    Yes is some wrong,Please 380VAC , must be the input for BLT You must read between LI+L2+L3 with DMM 380VAC .

    NOT with GND or GROUND , then go to electronics board for TTK, SLV, etc, and the output for main motor must be VDC, the output U+V++W, must be according with the ID plate of main motor.

    Please read carefully, and understand well this steps, otherwise, you must waste his time, and money.

    3) The output for U+V+W IS WRONG AND FAULTY, ? You must have the same Voltage has you have in the ID plate of Main Motor o.k?

    4) Measure U+V+W from BLT, with the terminals of main motor Out, AND SEE the Voltage, if the voltage is NOT o.k according with the ID plate of main motor, the BLT is faulty.

    5) However if the voltage is according with the ID plate of main motor, you have faulty the main motor, time to go to repair for maintenance. replace ball bearing, lube, and Put Varnis in the internal winding. !


    6) Look carefully for Dry+ solder joint in the BLT electronic board+TTK , carefully, reheating all solder, is my strong Recommendation. !!!

    Let me know.
     
  13. cubecube

    cubecube Member

    Joined:
    Thursday
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Thanks
    1) I am sorry. Would you please let me know where is the ground or negative? as attached.
    4) measure voltage from main motor plug as attached?
    BR
     

    Attached Files:

  14. CHOCK

    CHOCK Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2016
    Messages:
    2,021
    Location:
    Managua,Nicaragua
    Sorry plug x1, A31+A32+GROUND++

    bLESSING
     
  15. cubecube

    cubecube Member

    Joined:
    Thursday
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    I measured from BLT again
    L1 = 130v, L2 = 130v, L3= 130v
    U= 130v, V= 130v, W= 130v
    ID plate from Motor
    UN ef 160V Y
    N ef 38A
    6 Kw S1
    Did not measure the plug yet as do not know where is negative (ground). I attached a pict.
    Does it mean BLT works and (the 2nd hand) main motor is no working at all or not match?

    (However, technician said that main motor is driven by a permanent magnet. It will lose function if it is out of magnetism. we passed the previous main motor to motor company and they said motor coil is fine, just out of magnetism, no one in HK does induction of magnetism to the main core, so we bought a 2nd hand main motor. We have not examined the new 2nd hand motor yet. Just guess it works)

    Sorry, not reheat solder of TTK yet! I need to pass to somebody doing electronics?
    Or do cleaning the TTK & BLT board as priority?

    BR
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 26, 2021 at 3:43 AM
  16. CHOCK

    CHOCK Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2016
    Messages:
    2,021
    Location:
    Managua,Nicaragua
    Hi sir;

    1) I saw the BLT is o.k.

    2) Since you have voltage in U+V+W for Main Motor.

    3) This is indicate that old motor is Faulty.


    4) Replace the motor , and put the 2nd hand main motor, must work, however did you test the main motor before to buy it?

    5) Now the main motor will work.

    6) yes you need some electronic tech or engineer for doing reheat solder in TTK, and cleaning very well TTK+BLT .

    7) Turn ON , the machine main motor will work, and measure the voltage in the terminals +U+V+W

    8) The plug, that you show me, NOT have Ground, only has 6 terminals +L1+L2+L3 +U+V+W

    9) Ground will be any parts of chassis of the machine.
     
  17. cubecube

    cubecube Member

    Joined:
    Thursday
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Thanks
    We actually has replaced the main motor.
    It does not work.
    No we did not test the 2nd hand motor before buying it as they said they have no machine to test it. We may not find another motor. Buying a new one is very expensive and I am not sure the fault is the motor.
    Is it most likely is fault of main motor?
    BR
     
  18. cubecube

    cubecube Member

    Joined:
    Thursday
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Btw, the maim motor can move a bit sometimes when pressing forward or backwards
     

  19. CHOCK

    CHOCK Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2016
    Messages:
    2,021
    Location:
    Managua,Nicaragua
    Hi.
    Measure the terminals U+V+W without connection from main motor.
    1) if the Voltage:U+V+W, Is there the BLT Is good.
    2) the main motor can be Faulty.
    3) however Will be a good idea that you test the motor, in the place, where you did buy the motor 2) or go to some Sho of Repair electrical motor, AND see if the usted 2nd handb8s working.

    In That way, you Will Not doubt, about His motor used, Is Faulty or Not.
    Let me know ASAP
    Blessing
     

Loading...