GTO 52 Damping problem

[all alone]

Hi all....
I operate a Heidelberg 52 4 colour with Baldwin cooling and alcolor damping. My Z rollers are intergrated in the damping. I use 10% alcohol in the cooling system. The problem is that my Damping form roller gets excessive ink transfered onto it during the run and this happens soon after the run starts. I know what people are going to say regarding to much ink been released onto the rollers but trust me that isn't the problem. This problem gets alot worst when i am using spot colours and not process ink. The more this roller gets a build up of ink on it, the harder the transfer of ink from plate to blanket becomes and the images becomes washed out looking. The ink i am using is Hostmann-Steinberg. I also add in my damping 0.5% of a water hardening agent (Salinofix / Hostmann) and damping additive Combifix-xl (Hostmann) 4% which gives me a Ph value of 5. I have had a lab test my solution and they say it's fine. I have replaced all the ink form rollers and the damping rollers with new original Heidelberg rollers have reset them using a good heidelberg engineer. All areas of this problem have been looked at i think but hoping that this might have happened to someone out there and the solution is on hand.
Thanks all.

 

[RJ Litho]

RJ Litho

One thing is to run with the bridge off .Especially light coverage .10% Alcohol is very high have you tried running alcohol sub in place of alcohol. Sounds like you may be emulsifying . There is no crown on the pan rollers on the sm 52 10% there most likely to much water going thought the nip. With the right combination of etch and sub it runs as well or better than Alcohol . One thing check you pre and post damp set up usually these are set to high.I have the pre damp set to just scum at start up and soon the as the print unit comes off impression I have the dams coming off at the same time .We have a SM 52 6 color perfector, SM102 CD 102 73''Rolland . All run with bridge off. Let me know how you make out .

 

[mrheidelberg]

There is no crown on the pan rollers on the sm 52

Why do you say that..............all original pan rollers, on all alcolor Heidelberg presses (except the XL105) have a crowned pan roller.

 

[mrheidelberg]

I have replaced all the ink form rollers and the damping rollers with new original Heidelberg rollers have reset them using a good heidelberg engineer.

By an engineer or print demonstrator ??

 

[mrheidelberg]

One thing check you pre and post damp set up

This cannot be changed on the GTO alcolor system.

 

[mrheidelberg]

If the ink is emulsifying, you may have some kind of contamination in the roller train.....do you use a roller shampoo ?

 

[all alone]

If the ink is emulsifying, you may have some kind of contamination in the roller train.....do you use a roller shampoo ?

I use a calcium remover on the rollers. And the machine rollers were changed by an heidelberg engineer. Quite a good one in ireland. And on one other occasion had another heidelberg engineer in to service and reset the rollers and the same problem so i think the both of the can't be making the same mistake if it is a roller setting problem. i believe it could be a mix problem!!!

 

[all alone]

Can i ask one thing. Why is this problem more apparent when i an using pantone colours and less apparent when i am using process colours. I had the chemist from Hosmanns down with me and he was scratching his head at this! I do use reducers in my ink but that just delays the problem from happening. Is it the fact that i am using too much alcohol 10% / i am runnig an intergrated z roller or what. The damping form roller on the edges starts to get a build up of ink. Thanks a million for the feed back to date.

 

[mrheidelberg]

Have you double checked all the roller and damper settings. What level are you running the damps at ?
When you got the rollers replaced did you use a reputable roller supplier ?
Some PMS colours can be trickier to run than process colours due to the make up of the ink, but having said that you shouldn't see much difference.
Running the alcohol at 10% should be fine......are you sure the doser is working correctly and dosing at 10%.
Have you tried to run the Z roller out of link to see what happens.

Regards.

 

[all alone]

Just to show you the kind of problem i am talking about

 

[all alone]

Have you double checked all the roller and damper settings. What level are you running the damps at ?
When you got the rollers replaced did you use a reputable roller supplier ?
Some PMS colours can be trickier to run than process colours due to the make up of the ink, but having said that you shouldn't see much difference.
Running the alcohol at 10% should be fine......are you sure the doser is working correctly and dosing at 10%.
Have you tried to run the Z roller out of link to see what happens.

Regards.

I have gone mad in the setting and resetting of the rollers. The level depends on the jobs i am running. On spots i have to run the level very high because of the scumming even when the coverage isn't that big. I got the rollers (ink and damping) from the heidelberg main agent in ireland (cost an arm and a leg) and i replaced all the units at the same time! When the chemist was down with me he took a sample of my mix from the tank away for testing and it came back as it should be! And finally i intergrated the z roller because i thought that been not intergrated was causing the problem. This is going on for ages now. Help Ahhhhhhhh

 

[mrheidelberg]

Nice pic !!

Check all your damper settings. Is the Z roller set correctly, is everything washing up ok.

Regards.

 

[all alone]

Nice pic !!

Check all your damper settings.

Regards.

Will do again.. have an engineer down tuesday to do the service of the machines an will try again to solve it. I was hoping it may be something to do with the mixes!!! because the roller setting i think i exhaused. But will do. Thanks again for input

 

[mrheidelberg]

Are you using the correct Combifix for your type of water (hard/soft) ?

Have you tried a different fount solution ?

Regards.

 

[all alone]

Are you using the correct Combifix for your type of water (hard/soft) ?

Have you tried a different fount solution ?

Regards.

I posted in my first post all the types of solutions i am using. The water in my area was soft so i am putting in a harding agent. Have a look at my first post to see all the names and % being used be me and give me your thoughts. I am having no such problem on my other heidelberg but in saying that its running a different system.

 

[all alone]

Nice pic !!

Check all your damper settings. Is the Z roller set correctly, is everything washing up ok.

Regards.

Its washing up perfect.. Lets just say i don't have to worry about washing up when i am using a sealer or varnish.

 

[Olle]

Try to adjust dampening rollers that way: first take out metering roller and adjust form roller (without metering roller) to plate 2 mm. Then put back metering roller and adjust it to form roller by checking the stripe at plate (4mm)
Hope it helps, because picture looks like there might be not enough pressure between metering and form roller.

 

[all alone]

contamination

Hi Guys, Getting closer to solving my damping problem on the 4 colour G.T.O. Contamination, big time seems to be the problem. I tried the calcium remover and warm water, quick colour change paste etc etc... but still seems to be there. Any suggestions on how to remove this contamination from the rollers?
Thanks

 

[RJ Litho]

Vinegar and hot water .I also have avery good del glazer . I wash up with rollkeleen paste (can be left on over night )Then I use the deglaze and wash up with hot water followed by my wash solution . Rollers are left with that nice velvet feeling .We try to do this every one or two weeks . Roller maintenance is key in helping with ink water balance .

 

[all alone]

Thanks... will try this.. and let ye know