Feeder problems

[metalfabsection]

i m running new LS540 5 color+coater.our company try to cut cost by using bad shape of paper that is not uneven. with paper example 455GSM ,thickness around 0.48mm,812x456mm. with this papers ours feeder keep stop after 2nd paper but usually after 5 to 10 paper enter to the gripper.

my questions are could this machine running with this uneven paper papers? with this problem shouls i set the air from auto to manual setting?

 

[RichardK]

From the little info you give its unlikely anyone can diagnose the reason for the feeder trips.

My guess if the board is wavy then either the front edge is jumping over the lays or sheets are twisting and not meeting the front lays within tolerance. Are you running full carton kit on the feedboard? (heavy duty guides etc).

Does the EyeKom unit show any indicator lights on?

 

[Guest 82818-824]

Tell your employer that buying cheap bad paper is false economy and have them trim it on the guillotine.
p.s. don´t tell them they´re cheap & tight fisted just have it trimmed.

 

[metalfabsection]

yup the eyekom usually indicate front O & D.the worse part is when it indicate "over".yes we put all the guides but not get better anyway. should i adjust the pile so it will moving up a little faster

 

[RichardK]

The problem is not the pile height - the problem is... if your paper is wavy and you don't have the correct weight of guide over the lays then the sheet will 'jump' over the lay. Is the press equipped with carton attachments for the feedboard?

These used to be heavyweight guides in the form of a miniature roller bearing that you place as close as possible to the 'lay' (where the lay detector is fitted).

Failing that - you could try guillotine trimming the sheet edge as previously mentioned, turning the sheet around/upside down. Can you perhaps lift or lower the lay hoods themselves? There should be a screw adjuster accessible from either through the feedboard or from underneath.
DON'T turn off the Eyekom, you'll only damage blankets or worse, bend grippers or jam the press with that weight of paper.

However the real issue is the paper is either badly conditioned or just not up to the mark qualitywise.

Shame, brand new multi million ¥ press and your company is putting such poor stock through it.

 

[bluebeep]

Reply
Have had tuis problem before but cause could be different for you.
With curly board of this caliper its possable that the back edge of a dished
sheet (thats what you have got. This time of year comes in damp into
warm room and dries excessivley on the edgespulls tight and gets taht saucer
shape. This lifts the back edge of the sheet in tension on the feeder board
and can just throw the two sheet detector cam check this out and see
regards bluebeep

 

[RichardK]

Bluebeep - check out the guys location - Malaysia.

I'm guessing there's the opposite effect ie too much damp in the atmosphere - now unless they're working in air-conditioned premises with RH control the incoming material will be subject to RH differential, once unpacked they'll start to take on moisture and thus the wavy edges will be evident as opposed to tight edges from a dry atmosphere.

Also its the overshoot and front lay detector that's tripping the feeder not the two sheet.

Personally I'd reject the material but clearly it's their call.

 

[metalfabsection]

yeah the paper was badly conditioned not the quality. hey richrd i m not getting any picture about this cartoon attachment..u mean a form of miniature roller? could u explain about it.
we try adjust the layhood but not working well. u know what me laughts today?our printing instructor got a really big headache today because today we run a rally big paper today...i mean big that just fit nicely to cover entirely the board.350GSM, the feeder keep tripping with front d.o...over..double sheet etc hahahhaha poor guy. the paper in good conditioned emmmmm but still we got feeder tripping all the time.

Actually for u all guy info..we only got feeder problem when we run big and heavy paper also when running art paper 80GSM.....but when medium size paper we could running until 5 to 7 pile without feeder problem

actually the paper that with poor shape with wavy etc...because the paper come not in sheet but in web.so the other company cut it into sheet.the shape of the paper will be classify with grade A,b and C.so A and B are better because the paper shape is more even but C is worse but more cheaper!!!!

 

[5150pressman]

Try Readjusting the Eyekome.

 

[RichardK]

Try Readjusting the Eyekome.

Don't agree - adjusting the Eyekom so as to allow sheets that jump the lays or arrive misaligned at the lays to enter the press is asking for trouble.

Reject the paper stock is the best answer.

 

[metalfabsection]

Don't agree - adjusting the Eyekom so as to allow sheets that jump the lays or arrive misaligned at the lays to enter the press is asking for trouble.

Reject the paper stock is the best answer.

u know what richardk if i m the boss for sure i will never ever use these kind of paper....expensive press but use cheap paper.i sure after 2 year this machine will bring many trouble and problem.i bet the gripper will need to be replace first....

 

[RichardK]

I am 'the boss' at my company - if it were my press there's be no substandard materials run through it.

The cost in wasted machine time alone would not make the paper savings worth it. Not to mention the high possibility of the machine jamming*, blanket, smashes or gripper damage.

*Trust me on this one - I've seen a Komori that needed to have the units split in order to clear a paper jam when an operator switched off the 2 sheet detector to get some 'difficult' material through the press.

Maybe you can save this thread and when (not if) you get any of the above issues you can show it to your manager. Hmmm, perhaps showing it first would be more professional.

 

[metalfabsection]

u see i m just like small dot on the large white paper hmmmmm my opinion will never be heard if my company put cost as the first priority.anyway we never shut off any sensor device..patiently we just finish the job with that damn paper anyway..by the way my production manager is roland hardcore...he so proud to say that the bad conditioned paper can through the roland press without trouble like komori did...so he just blame komori ...u see this is our first komori...top management bought this press because of the spare part was much cheaper and easy to find..that the main reason...my manager was up for Roland 700...

 

[RichardK]

I hear what you say and I sympathize.

Still it's not your problem is it if the press gets damaged as long as you did everything you could to make your view heard?

It's like buying a 50" Plasma TV, Blu-ray player, full cinema surround sound and then buying 'pirated' dvds to watch.

 

[marques]

feeder malfunction

engage your feeder on slower motion and watch the paper till they rich the front lays...timing ok? (245) eyekom adjustment? side lay interfering ? have adjusted the swing gripper scale (0,5) ? the paper guides (heavy) but not stopping the paper... good luck

 

[metalfabsection]

just to inform that my problem solved.we removed the paper guide located at the side lay...just look at picture attached !!!

http://www.ziddu.com/download/6632168/DSC00107.JPG.html

 

[Meny]

your press should be able to run 0.04-1 mm stock with no problem
if it is the bad paper or if it is the feeder / feed board settings that is not set as it should be , no one can tell from this distance.
how are your feeder board suction ventilators working?
do you get alot od dust from the bad board ? are the eyes clean ?
will the sheet go in to the front lay easy or do you have a mechanical stop that could skew the sheet?
do you position the pile correctly to the side lay? 5 mil off center ?
what are your air settings on the feeder ? are he sheets comming down the feed table in line?
how about front opening ? (and did you change you transfare cylinder gripper pad hight ? not connected to problem , just asking)
did you ever get proper Komori training ?
do you know the "Komori way" for the brush & wheel kit ?

feel free to contact by email for help
info@israel-biz.com

 

[metalfabsection]

we had bad komori demonstrator.bad... i mean like they can not solve our problem like they should be.

our paper stocks !!!!

http://www.ziddu.com/download/6711420/DSC00140.JPG.html

http://www.ziddu.com/download/6711421/DSC00139.JPG.html


brush wheels and and wheels setting on feeder board

http://www.ziddu.com/download/6711444/DSC00073.JPG.html

http://www.ziddu.com/download/6711445/DSC00077.JPG.html

 

[RichardK]

Holy crap - excuse my language. But that has to be the worst case of board that's taken on damp from the atmosphere I've seen in a long time.(Last time it was in a pressroom next to the sea - with all windows open as well as loading bay door open) No wonder you're having problems.

Does it arrive that way or does it take that shape after a while in the pressroom?

All I can say is make sure you have heavy duty smoothers at the lay edge - if you're running carton stock Komori used to offer special carton roller type smoothers.

Looking at your tailedge wheels and brushes - looks like you're running brushes at the centre instead of outboard of the hard nylon wheels - also the spring looks concave so you may have that set too hard.

Are the nylon wheels inline with the lay - if not they should be.

The damaged smoother in your previous post was most likely the cause of most of the issues, aside from the over damp condition of the board edges.

 

[RichardK]

y
do you know the "Komori way" for the brush & wheel kit ?

I'd love to know that Meny, why don't you post it?

Along with the Komori way to set the steel sheet separators at the feeder head.

Just curious is all.