Double sheet detector problem - Urgent

[KGM]

Hi Folks. a problem cropped up today at work. My machine is a 1984 Komori Lithrone 26, 4 colour.
Over the last week or so when i pressed the stop production button at the delivery end the machine failed to trip and stayed in impression when the paper ran out and i had to trip the feeder manually from the feeder end. It didnt happen every time so i just cleaned the eyes, etc.
Now today while setting up a job, everytime i start feeding to print it trips out immediately. I turned off the eyekom unit and managed to print the job manually.
when the eyekom is on, the LF RF S and D lights are working on the unit, the P light is now off. I dont know what S D and P stand for on the eyekom. it is Eyekom -3A.
I checked the connections to the double sheet detector and in a plastic barrel there was a red wire broken off and a grey wire connected. The red one didnt seem to be freshly broken but wasnt in the best state. I was thinking of stripping the red wire back a bit and resoldering it. Dont know if this will fix it.
Any advice for me, i will be trying it in the morning. electrics arent my strongpoint.

 

[hockeyandthefamily1978]

Found this while phishing through the other threads this might help you. I haven't been on a Komori for about a year now so I am a tad mentally rusty right now, I have a buddy that is currently working on one, But I wont be able to get a hold of him until later on tonight late. So for now I will post this for you, it is from another poster Klecman:

"1) Rotate the press so that the sensor paddles are raised.

2) Clean the projection lenses and sensors under the paddles with alcohol or a dampened cloth or Q-Tip. Wipe the surfaces with a clean dry cloth or Q-Tip.

3) Rotate the press to approximately 295 degrees.

4) While holding down the “ADJUST” button

A) Turn the “P” control to the point at which the lamp is just off.
B) Turn the “D” control to the point at which the lamp is just on.
C) Turn the “LF” control to the point at which the lamp is just off.
D) Turn the “RF” control to the point at which the lamp is just off.

5) Release the “ADJUST” button. The lamps should change to their opposite states. When the “ADJUST” button is pressed again, the lamps should appear as in step # 4.

Adjust Button Depressed . . . . . . Adjust Button Released

P --- OFF. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . P --- ON

D --- ON . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . D --- OFF

LF --- OFF. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . LF --- ON

RF --- OFF. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . LF --- ON

If any of the lamps will not set as shown above, try adjusting the paddle sensors so that they are directly over the projection lamps. The center paddle is the double sheet detector and should be no more that 2.5 mm. above the projector lens. If the lens is cloudy it can be removed temporarily until a new lens is installed. New lenses must be carefully trimmed to fit tightly into the cutout. Super glue can be used but be careful not to cloud the lens. Order extra lenses as they can easily be broken during fitting.

If you suspect a faulty sensor, connect a voltmeter to the two outer pins of the sensor plug. The meter should indicate just under 0.5 volt when the sensor is illuminated. The double sheet sensor paddle may appear similar to the LF and RF paddles but should have a larger square photocell when viewed from the bottom.

If the settings will not hold, tap the faceplate of the Eyekom. If the LED lamps flicker, the Eyekom should be repaired of replaced . If any of the LED lamps flicker while turning the dials, this also indicates that the Eyekom should be repaired or replaced."


With all that said though, I remember when running either both of the 28" or 40" Komori's and having that problem most of the time it was either from eyes still being dirty as you described cleaning or you might have to go under the feeder board and adjust the electronic sensor manually counter clockwise a 1/4 turn at the most. There should be 4 or 5 small sensor boxes under there in about the middle part of the feeder board as facing to clean the Back Cyl. I would give it a quarter turn counter clock wise then put a sheet under the sensor on top of the the feeder board box. your impression light should go from on to off as you move the sheet of paper in and out from under the the double sheet detector box. I will definitely get in touch with him tonight and get back to you on it though.

 

[KGM]

Found this while phishing through the other threads this might help you. I haven't been on a Komori for about a year now so I am a tad mentally rusty right now, I have a buddy that is currently working on one, But I wont be able to get a hold of him until later on tonight late. So for now I will post this for you, it is from another poster Klecman:

"1) Rotate the press so that the sensor paddles are raised.

2) Clean the projection lenses and sensors under the paddles with alcohol or a dampened cloth or Q-Tip. Wipe the surfaces with a clean dry cloth or Q-Tip.

3) Rotate the press to approximately 295 degrees.

4) While holding down the “ADJUST” button

A) Turn the “P” control to the point at which the lamp is just off.
B) Turn the “D” control to the point at which the lamp is just on.
C) Turn the “LF” control to the point at which the lamp is just off.
D) Turn the “RF” control to the point at which the lamp is just off.

5) Release the “ADJUST” button. The lamps should change to their opposite states. When the “ADJUST” button is pressed again, the lamps should appear as in step # 4.

Adjust Button Depressed . . . . . . Adjust Button Released

P --- OFF. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . P --- ON

D --- ON . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . D --- OFF

LF --- OFF. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . LF --- ON

RF --- OFF. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . LF --- ON

If any of the lamps will not set as shown above, try adjusting the paddle sensors so that they are directly over the projection lamps. The center paddle is the double sheet detector and should be no more that 2.5 mm. above the projector lens. If the lens is cloudy it can be removed temporarily until a new lens is installed. New lenses must be carefully trimmed to fit tightly into the cutout. Super glue can be used but be careful not to cloud the lens. Order extra lenses as they can easily be broken during fitting.

If you suspect a faulty sensor, connect a voltmeter to the two outer pins of the sensor plug. The meter should indicate just under 0.5 volt when the sensor is illuminated. The double sheet sensor paddle may appear similar to the LF and RF paddles but should have a larger square photocell when viewed from the bottom.

If the settings will not hold, tap the faceplate of the Eyekom. If the LED lamps flicker, the Eyekom should be repaired of replaced . If any of the LED lamps flicker while turning the dials, this also indicates that the Eyekom should be repaired or replaced."


With all that said though, I remember when running either both of the 28" or 40" Komori's and having that problem most of the time it was either from eyes still being dirty as you described cleaning or you might have to go under the feeder board and adjust the electronic sensor manually counter clockwise a 1/4 turn at the most. There should be 4 or 5 small sensor boxes under there in about the middle part of the feeder board as facing to clean the Back Cyl. I would give it a quarter turn counter clock wise then put a sheet under the sensor on top of the the feeder board box. your impression light should go from on to off as you move the sheet of paper in and out from under the the double sheet detector box. I will definitely get in touch with him tonight and get back to you on it though.

great thanks. i know how to set the eyekom, not working as it should, im convinced its an electronic/electric fault

 

[KGM]

Had my electronics guy in, didnt have to call an engineer thankfully. The sender part of the double sheet detector was gone, some of the wiring was a bit dodgy too. Just old age it looks like. New part on the way, tomorrow hopefully.

 

[klecman]

The posted instructions are for the Eyekom IIB. With the Eyekom III, you use the "adjust" button only for setting the double sheet detector.

The following is for the Eyekom III

EYEKOM IIIA SETTING PROCEDURE


1) Rotate the press so that the hooks at the headstops are raised.

2) Clean the sensors under the hooks with a toothbrush and either alcohol or a safe contact cleaner such as CRC QD available at Home Depot. Also clean the “P” receiver or fiber optic and the bottom of the double sheet detector paddle. If you have the fiber optic “P” sensor, use a toothbrush to clean around the tip of the sensor.

3) Rotate the press to approximately 2850.

4) Set the “in-out” select switch to the proper position according to sheet size.

A) Turn the LF knob clockwise until the LED indicator lights, then advance an additional half graduation.
B) Turn the RF knob clockwise until the LED indicator lights, then advance an additional half graduation.
C) Adjust the “P” control in the same manner. If no setting can be found, you may have a newer model press that uses an external fiber optic sensor for paper detection. This usually requires no adjustment.
D) Select the side pull (S) switch to either L or R according to the side you will be pulling to.
E) Adjust the “S” control in the same manner as above.

5) Set the “D” select switch according to the thickness of the paper:

Thin: 0.001” - 0.0027”
Normal: 0.0027” – 0.015”
Thick: 0.015” – 0.024”

6) While pressing the adjust button, slowly turn the D knob clockwise until the LED indicator just lights.

7) Slowly bring a sheet down to the headstops by hand. You should first see the “P” indicator go out and then the LF and RF LEDs should go out when the paper is squared up against the headstops.

8) In a similar way, bring a sheet under each of the side guide detectors; the selected LED lamp should go off.

This completes the normal adjustment of the Eyekom IIIA.

If settings cannot be made, refer to the Eyekom IIIA Troubleshooting Guide.

 

[KGM]

Got it sorted thankfully. I installed the new sender, but it took a bit of playing around to get the settings right again. back in business.
The sender was 115€, the receiver which i dont need and am sending back to komori was 420€, not including next day delivery charges from the UK. Parts are such a rip off.
I have to say though, the service from komori in leeds was excellent, rang at 4:30pm, had the part next day at midday.

Thanks for the replies, this forum really is great.

 

[KGM]

An update on this, due to my inexperience and not knowing what each sensor controlled i bought and blew the wrong part.
I installed the DSD emitter to the impression on section. It was very bright but worked for a week, then it went again. I have since found out that there is probably different voltages going to each emitter, possibly only 3v of a difference. Anyway i had to but the right one and install that seems ok now. Impression on is working, DSD is working but now it wont trip when there is no sheet so i have to keep an eye on it. waiting on an engineer but i am super busy at the moment and cant even afford to lose a days work.

 

[KGM]

Another update, had an engineer in this week, all sorted now, some of the wiring going to the front lay sensors was in bits, brittle and probably caused a short.
So glad to be back having control over my press again.