Difference between PPL vs. APL on Roland 700

Discussion in 'Man Roland Printing Presses' started by PedroLlama, Jul 25, 2012.

  1. PedroLlama

    PedroLlama Member

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    Hello! Perhaps someone can help me clarify this question.

    What's the main difference between PPL vs. APL? I know it depends on the automation, but in what exactly do they defer?

    I look forward for your comments and thank you in advance.

    Best regards from Mexico

    Pedro Llama Esteinou
    pedrollama@visiongrafica.net
     
  2. controlgraphics

    controlgraphics Senior Member

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    PPL Power Plate Loading, the machine positions to the clamping bars and opens/close the bars. The plates have to be inserted and taken out of the lead edge bar by hand.
    APL: Automatic Plate Loading, Fully automatic plate change. The plates are inserted or rejected automatically in or out of the lead edge bar by a plate transport system.
    www.controlgraphicsusa.com
     
  3. PedroLlama

    PedroLlama Member

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    Thanks for your response.

    Another question, could you say that PPL is equivalent to the first Autoplate version from Heidelberg or to SAPC from Komori?

    I assume APL is equivalent to FAPC from KBA (but not to the latest Autoplate Plus version from Heidelberg or DirectDrive from Roland).

    I mean, I know that every machine and automatic plate loading device have it's differences, but it's just for the sake of comparing it with a customer.

    I hope I'm not saying nonsense.

    Looking forward for any other comments.

    Regards from México
     
  4. controlgraphics

    controlgraphics Senior Member

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    Yeah, not sure I understand where you are going. Are you trying to compare their functionality or make a comparison from a technical stand point (wich is a better system). As far as direct drive, it is a totally different system from all of the above mentioned. Are you an end user?
    www.controlgraphicsusa.com
     
  5. PedroLlama

    PedroLlama Member

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    No, I'm not an end user. And you're right, Direct Drive has nothing to do with the others. Sorry, my mistake.

    I only want to compare the systems and establish the clear requirement from a customer who's looking for a used machine. He told me that he wanted the machine to have Autoplate (which, in fact, is the commercial name for Heidelberg's semi automatic plate loading device). But, I'm not sure if Autoplate from earlier models have developed and it's another version in the new ones (let's say 1995 machine vs. 2005 machine). From what I know, Autoplate has grown into Autoplate Plus (in Heidelberg more recent models like some XL). But other brands, such as Komori, KBA & Roland have also developed their own systems (with different names). PPL, APL, SAPC, FAPC, etc.

    So, can I say Roland's PPL is the equivalent of Heidelberg's early models Autoplate? Or Roland's APL is equivalent to Heidelberg's Autoplate in the more recent machines?

    Or, in other comparison: Roland's PPL is equivalent to Komori's SAPC? Komori's QAPC is the acronym for Quick Action Plates Change? So, it is, more or less, the same system of some 1980's Heidelberg SM? Perhaps, I'm very confused. Excuse me if I'm saying nonsense (again, hahaha)

    In conclusion, I just want my customer to understand that all the different brands have developed automatic plate loading systems (call it Autoplate, APL or the name you want). So he may not reject some brands due to this specific term.

    It's not a big deal, but it helps me narrowing a broad search when we're looking for an specific machine.

    Thanks for your comments (and corrections)
     
  6. PedroLlama

    PedroLlama Member

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    When I referred to Roland 700 DirectDrive models, I meant that they have the possibility of doing a simultaneous multiple plate change. But DirectDrive itself is not the responsible for changing the plates, it has to do with the directly driven plate cylinders that system implies, which permits all plates to be changed simultaneously. Again, sorry for my confusion.
     
  7. expose

    expose New Member

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    yep, we have both Roland and Heidelberg Autoplate - very little difference between them, ok more efficient technology and a slightly enhanced finish, but essentially both similar pieces of equipment.

    www.custom-graphics.com.au
    www.tshirtprinting.com.au
     
  8. RolandGuy

    RolandGuy Member

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    APL does not work with out help so basically they are all PPL. Call it what you will but the first APL systems even scratched the plates, which Roland later fixed with 2 small wheels. But every APL i have operated on the 700's and 900's and the 900XXL had to be assisted.
     
  9. controlgraphics

    controlgraphics Senior Member

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    The main difference is: the PPL is a semi automatic plate change, where a button has to be pressed to close/open the lead edge bar, and the plates have to be inserted and taken out by hand.
    The APL is a fully automatic plate change, where the plates are inserted and ejected automatically into/out of the lead edge bar by a plate transport system. If the system is not kept in good working order, it may require assistance.
    www.controlgraphicsusa.com
     
  10. RolandGuy

    RolandGuy Member

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    I agree totally but the APL has never worked right. We signed off on several brand new presses that the APL's never were right. We even had the engineers from Germany work on them. The older 1996 was a nightmare and the newer 2007 model was a little better but still not up to par. I went to work at another shop that ran 900's and one 700 and they had same issues. I love Roland presses so do not get me wrong it is no big deal to me to assist the plate loading. I was just pointing out that they have never seemed to work right at least for very long anyway and that is with Germans engineers giving up.
     
  11. RolandGuy

    RolandGuy Member

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    As soon as the APL errors out you have to hit the soft stop to initiate the first cycle and then insert plate and close clamps manually like a PPL system. I have had to do that on EVERY Roland I have ran. You only TRY for so long to keep them working properly before it becomes to costly. 1 of the problems is the little set screw in the servo motors that drives the plate, strips out real easy allowing to much play in the system or the pins get dirty or the wheels get full of ink. Great concept but to much can fail.
     
  12. onedaddeo

    onedaddeo Member

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    I run a Man Roland 708 with Direct drive. Some operators flip the plates over so they have a blank plate on units that are not in use. I was told to have a blank plate made, because the reversed plates can jam the APL system. Do plates bend better normal vs reversed? Has anyone had a APL jam with a reversed plate? thanks
     
  13. Inkypinky

    Inkypinky New Member

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    It’s all dependant on the companies budget and maintenance allowance long term in my opinion. To keep Autoplate and APL systems working efficiently, they require a constant amount of pin point maintenance each week which eats into production time, and also costs for worn parts such as rubber drive wheels and even wiring looms in some cases. For a company that specialises in very short runs day in day out fully automatic plate changes would be very beneficial. In contrast, the beauty of having a reliable semi or even manual plate change system may be the better option, especially as the press gets older.
     
  14. JP86

    JP86 New Member

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    We also have problems with APL system on R700 2008. Usually you have to push plate harder on pins to show II, or if even this not help, you have to do it manual wich is in most cases. Even with cleaning pins it s not necessary that it will work like it should.
    Rubber wheels are next pain in the a**, cause when they get dirty you have problems with spots of semi dry ink on your new plate. And they get dirty fast. Even more if u print with uv inks. You can reduce this by washing plate or rollers before changing plates or if u use an option for sheeds to take off ink from blanket and plate when u finish with job. I usually set 20 sheets and its ok.
     

  15. onedaddeo

    onedaddeo Member

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    We do run UV inks, and we try to decolorize the plates at the end of our runs. cleaning the rubber ejector wheels helps, but as the rubber gets old, it doesn't drive the plates on or off as when it was new
     
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