comparing Heidelberg XL 105 with Manroland 705

[McD23]

we print from 90gr paper to 400gr board with the CD it can manage everything..
the roland 706 started production four days ago.
first impression:
feeder is a joy
inking units are very stable
varnish blanket "quick change" must be called "crawl change". is a torture.
it is still in testing process, so, i have to wait a couple of months to see it productivity.

Hi Choken,
Can you comment on your decision to go with the Roland 706 please?
I am about to replace 3 old machines ( heidelberg, roland,kba ) with 2 new 5 col+coater f/size presses. I have looked at Heidelberg,Komori,KBA and Roland. All spec'd similiarly with col,ink and plate systems to enable quick change over of jobs, so far the Roland based on price and options is definetly my first choice.
We are a commercial sheetfed printer that currently average's 5000 to 6000 m/r per year, avg 40 min per m/r.
I expect to realise a significant gain in make ready time.
Has anyone done a similiar excersize recently that can offer any comment to help guide me ?
Your input will be much appreciated, thank you.

 

[choken31]

hi, we decided to buy a roland for price. it was competing with a komori 640 that i think, it´s another great machine.
we replaced a 1988 speedmaster 102 4 colour straight and a 1997 CD 6+coater, and increased production about a 30% (yes, with 1 machine!)
makeready time is very relative. our machine is equiped with apl (automatic plate change) and cip3., so, change between 4 colours similars job took about 10 minutes.
its the time to wash up the blankets, change plates, do 2 samples, and begin production (1st sample is 90% of accuracy).
obviously a 6 colours job with complicated spots colours took a lot of time.
i used heidelbergs all my professional time, and still i think that are great machines, but now and with this crisis, are pretty expensive.
i think roland, komori, or kba are excellent machines, and they are smaller companies with more need of selling machines, so you can find a really better price than a heidelberg.
our machine started production at the end of february, and now it has 11 millions sheets, only minor problems that didn´t stop production.
i hope my experience can help you.

 

[saso777]

Both machines are great we have 4 rolands in our factory and they are good machines but when we buy HD cd102 6color i would wote for HD maybe is more expensive but you get much more for the money

 

[McD23]

Both machines are great we have 4 rolands in our factory and they are good machines but when we buy HD cd102 6color i would wote for HD maybe is more expensive but you get much more for the money

Hi Saso777
How old where the Rolands, and when did you replace with Heidelberg? what exactly do you mean by 'more for your money' can you explain that in more detial for me please.
thanks.

 

[saso777]

One is Roland 705 the others are older RFK and Rekord from 1996-98 so i have worked some time on all Rolands,the biggest problem with Rolands all of them was electronic (still is),anyway they are good machines but when we buy HD i noticed the sharper image on printed material (we do some tests ,same image from same ctp on both machines),so better quality,machine is stable comparing 705 in long runs no need to correct colors a lot,preparing time is little bit faster on 705 (depends a lot from pressman but for me it is not the most important advantage,HD is much easy to operate and wasted sheets are almost same but speed is with HD.There is a lot to talk about,yes spare parts a cheaper for HD here i don't know at your place.Anyway i think HD is better soluton than 705 and 705 is better than Komori. If it comes something else on my mind i'll write to you

 

[choken31]

i think it's unfair to compare different generations machines. we used a 1997 heidelberg CD and it's alot less productive than the 2011 roland.
i think that 700 series are similar to CD series. XL series are superior of both. i never saw a CX series.
i saw a XL running at 16000 s/h with 80gr/m2 paper in real production, not at drupa. it's an incredible machine, but it's 25 % expensive than a 700. we couldn't afford such amount of money, so we went for a roland

 

[McD23]

Hi Choken
We replacing Heidelberg1985 102vp 4 col, 1996 R704 3b 4 col and KBA 2003 RA105-5+L .
so appears to be very similiar excersize to the one in your company.
Heidelberg also 25% more, but I cant see it benefiting company 25% in productivity,utilization or even resale in time ?
I heard a rumour this week that heidelberg and Manroland merging next year, will be announced at Rupa 2012, any one heard that ?
thanks.

 

[McD23]

One is Roland 705 the others are older RFK and Rekord from 1996-98 so i have worked some time on all Rolands,the biggest problem with Rolands all of them was electronic (still is),anyway they are good machines but when we buy HD i noticed the sharper image on printed material (we do some tests ,same image from same ctp on both machines),so better quality,machine is stable comparing 705 in long runs no need to correct colors a lot,preparing time is little bit faster on 705 (depends a lot from pressman but for me it is not the most important advantage,HD is much easy to operate and wasted sheets are almost same but speed is with HD.There is a lot to talk about,yes spare parts a cheaper for HD here i don't know at your place.Anyway i think HD is better soluton than 705 and 705 is better than Komori. If it comes something else on my mind i'll write to you

Thanks Saso
can anyone else comment on price of spare parts for the 2 different manufacturerers ( Heidelberg, Rolnad ) in their region ?

 

[McD23]

No comments on the running costs of the 2 machines?

 

[McD23]

bump.