Canon vs Konica-Minolta vs Oce

Discussion in 'Canon Color Laser Printers & Color Copiers' started by larsonski, Oct 29, 2009.

  1. larsonski

    larsonski New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2009
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    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Hi folks,

    I'm done with Canon and their lack of service and bad products. But my boss want to give them another chance (after 4 bad printers).
    We started with a CLC900, but that was before my time and i heard it wasn't that good. Then we had 2 CLC4000's which produced good quality but they needed so much service every month (we only print like 25k a month) that Canon recommended us a CLC5151. This machine was better then the 4000 and more reliable. Haha, what a joke. It's the worst machine i ever saw.
    The Fiery GX-100 (with GX-200 firmware) looses it's connection a few times a day. It can't print black on heavy paper (250 grs) (Canon Japan say, it's indeed not working and we can't do anything about it) and the colorconsistancy is very bad.

    So now they want to sell us a ImageRunner C9060 PRO, it's the best machine Canon made so far, they say. I don't have faith in it anymore.

    So i'm also considering the Oce CS 655pro and the Konica-Minolta BizHUB C5501. Their service is much better, we have both brands on Wideformat color and b/w as on Officemachines, and their suport is good. They also last longer.

    Does anyone can give me an opinion about the oce and KM machines (or the canon c9060)?
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2009
  2. Jimmy 217

    Jimmy 217 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2009
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    Location:
    Ilinois
    Oce is a far better value

    The CS655 has really helped us increase productivity. Oce has won the most service awards and they are ISO Certified. To better explain the following is from their site. Good luck hope this helps:

    The Océ CS655 Pro provides affordable digital color for all business needs. It produces exceptional color prints on a variety of paper media with finishing options for newsletters, brochures, booklets, memos, mailings and more.

    The Océ CS655 Pro makes short-run color printing affordable for even the smallest project.

    Performance and flexibility right through to finishing
    Digital full color production at 55 ppm
    High output quality
    Up to 4,250 sheets input capacity for unattended productivity
    Printer/copier/scanner* in one
    You can also choose to add one of the inline finishers with stacking, stapling, punching and post inserting options or even booklet making, center and trifolding.
     
  3. k_graham

    k_graham Senior Member

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    Location:
    CommunityPrinters.com Canada
    Was the Canon serviced by Canon or a dealer?

    The most important number in copiers is not the recommended monthly volume, but the recommended monthly volume of copier divided by service calls, I would call this the Reliablilty index the smaller the number the better.


    We had poor Canon Color Copier performance CLC 200, 300, 800, 2400, but from a dealer, not the manufacturer, then Ikon cpp500 that came without RIP patches making it a 8050 to the RIP but with glossy toner without the calibration for it.

    But the most telling case was a black copier Canon IR5000 serviced on average of less than 10,000 copies between services at 2,000,000 yet things like filters were dirty- at that point we had a small independent dealer look at it and he pointed out some items were showing several times past due in meter logs - according to computer history print out from dealer drum wiper blade was 2 times past due and Corona assembly also 2 times past due. 2,000,000 since changed but required at 1,000,000 - (the new different dealer did these changes, but also suggested like a car not getting air filter changed that the machine should be set a aside - maybe used for spare parts so was at about 2,200,000)

    We also had a IR6000 (same except for 10 copies minute faster as 5000) this was comparatively new and also got switched to new dealer at something like 300,000 copies. (Good thing it was missing the air filter that draws air into the drum / corona area) It currently has about 2,200,000 copies but has gone over 250,000 copies since last service ---- Thats 25 times better performance from the independent dealer than from the large dealer and a service factor about equal to monthly recommended volume for the machine.

    So small independent dealer on parts and time Reliability index about 1
    Large dealer 25 services to 1 Reliability index at 2,000,000 copies.
    Smaller number better.

    The difference - the small independent dealer had us on Parts and service and advised us in how to clean the filters ourselves monthly saying it was important - at last service I think bill was in range of $1600.00 because he put the parts in the machine at suggested replacement intervals as compared to the large dealer that only seems to have replaced parts on actual failure.

    For color copier we switched to Xerox due in large part to user replaceable drums, coronas, fusers, refunding of clicks for faulty copies and the only local factory service.

    Consequently if anyone is getting much under suggested monthly volume between breakdowns, I suggest you look at filters making sure they are not dirty (and that they are there), ask for a service print out of work done on your copier and have your tech show you the comparison of parts replacement to suggested life of parts. Of particular importance is Filters, Drums, Coronas, and fuser rollers figuring 50 to 80% life if running the heavier rated materials for your machine - I do not consider manual restringing a Corona to be a excuse for going past replacement recommendations.

    If your dealer is going over 100% I can only suggest a different dealer ASAP. Unfortunately I know of no consumer law saying parts must be changed at manufacturer recommended times. Yet even if not affecting you directly if dealers are going past recommended intervals on public machines at schools and government institutions then this is costing you the tax payer.


    Ken
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2009
  4. Danelsu

    Danelsu New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2011
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    Location:
    US
    There are many reputable Canon distributors including Oce North America. Give them a try first to see if you are dealing with a qualified Canon rep.


     

  5. k_graham

    k_graham Senior Member

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    Not a guarantee but I am guessing factory service tends to be less afraid of changing parts.

    Xerox - we still have a Xerox Doc 12 as backup , I think its at over 600,000 copies.
    Xerox Doc240 over 800,000 also serviced by Xerox

    Comparison Canon CLC 2400 gave to Xerox at 220,000 copies a machine I think was rated 100,000 copies month but needed service by Ikon every few thousand and quit printing double sided shortly after I paid for machine for which Tech said he could not fix. Doc 12 I think was rated 30,000 copies month - still going but only as a spare as its now too expensive by comparison on click charge.

    Oh and the black Canon IR6000 - at 2,800,000 will likely replace at 3,000,000 or when drum fails but its still going about 200,000 or more between services vs Ikon of under 10,000 on our IR5000, I guess replacing parts instead restringing Coronas and leaving plugged filters works better than paying technicians and not replacing parts.

    Ken
     
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