Advice on 3302 M w crestline
- Thread starter Sherry H
- Start date
Advertisement:
Sherry H
Member
I came in behind a young man operating this machine that did not understand it. He made many adjustments and it was full of hardened ink and paper trash. I've cleaned it and made several appropriate adjustments, but still has toning. Checked the roller pressures and they were 6-7 mm. I've tried to get it to 3.5 mm but it doesn't seem to change. This and the type of fountain solution are the only things I can think that are causing the toning issue.
Adil
Senior Member
alibryan
Senior Member
The roller diagram posted shows the form roller nips being opposite of what you would normally want. Normally, you would want the form to oscillator nips heavier (driving the roller) and the form to plate nips lighter, so as not to be the ones driving the roller. This is the case in every roller diagram I have ever seen, for every press (make or model) that I have ever worked on. I don’t know what to make of the above diagram but will say that personally I would disregard it, and in fact I have never followed it when adjusting any 3302 that I have ever operated.
Sherry H
Member
So, I have been dealing with this all week. As I have tried to go by the diagram it seems to make things worse. So you're saying I need heavier nips on oscillator and lighter on ink to plate? I cannot seem to get my second ink roller to plate nip smaller than 6 mm. It's very frustrating
alibryan
Senior Member
As a general guideline I would adjust for approximately 4mm osc to form (if you can get it) and 3mm form to plate. It’s been my experience that the oscillators should ALWAYS be what’s driving the form rollers, not the plate.
Crestline damps are notorious for toning issues, especially (and unfortunately) on the 3302 presses, lol. It might be a constant battle for you until you can find the best fountain concentrate brands and mixtures. You might also try adding body varnish to your ink(s) to increase the tack, which should help a lot.
Crestline damps are notorious for toning issues, especially (and unfortunately) on the 3302 presses, lol. It might be a constant battle for you until you can find the best fountain concentrate brands and mixtures. You might also try adding body varnish to your ink(s) to increase the tack, which should help a lot.
Sherry H
Member
Ok that's good to know. My boss will see about inks with more tack. I'll work on the nips. All the manuals I'm looking at has the 2.5 for oscillator and 3.5 on ink to plate. But I'll try your advise. So another question if you don't mind, which should I set the nips on first? Oscillators or ink form? I've been trying to find a balance all week. Id get the form set but tone at idle. Then reset the oscillator and it would throw off the pressure to plate.
alibryan
Senior Member
Form to oscillators first, always.
You can find inks that are higher in tack (12 or lower, if possible) but if you get some body varnish you can also add that to any ink you already have, which is obviously very helpful. It’s a little more work adding it to the ink before you put the ink in the press, but you can do it to any ink, you control the amount, and that tackier ink then also finds its way into the dampening system, which makes a big difference as well.
You can find inks that are higher in tack (12 or lower, if possible) but if you get some body varnish you can also add that to any ink you already have, which is obviously very helpful. It’s a little more work adding it to the ink before you put the ink in the press, but you can do it to any ink, you control the amount, and that tackier ink then also finds its way into the dampening system, which makes a big difference as well.
realaqu
Member
Did you check the hardness of those rollers, that is the first step for this kind duplicators. crestline is good for short runs but for long run, you need a chiller and put some alcohol substitute in your fountain solution.
printerdan
Member
How old are the dampening rollers? 4 years, way too old. 3 years? Replace. 2 years? You should replace them if you can't run for a couple of hours.
If whoever pays the bills doesn't know, replace them.
You have a stripe larger than specified-you might have the wrong roller in that position.
#3 is the largest, at the bottom when opening up the delivery end safety gate. #2 is the smallest.
Setting roller nips should be simple. Fat stripe, thin stripe, the two 3302's I run will run. Btw set #3 stripe to plate very light.
I doubt that fountain solution or ink is your problem. I have literally and for years used ink scavenged from out of business shops 10, 15+ years old. My employer changes ink suppliers when they see a good price. Currently using Wickoff(?) or Epple. No difference, misc inks of every flavor any day. Wax free, "made for plastic" (non porus or foil surface), "for uncoated only".
Two things I would stress. Decent dampener rollers and not running slow. The other guy who runs these presses (he primarily runs the 4 color) has to clean dampeners every hour but he won't run past 6m iph. I insist on fewer clean ups and try to run 7m iph minimum.
If whoever pays the bills doesn't know, replace them.
You have a stripe larger than specified-you might have the wrong roller in that position.
#3 is the largest, at the bottom when opening up the delivery end safety gate. #2 is the smallest.
Setting roller nips should be simple. Fat stripe, thin stripe, the two 3302's I run will run. Btw set #3 stripe to plate very light.
I doubt that fountain solution or ink is your problem. I have literally and for years used ink scavenged from out of business shops 10, 15+ years old. My employer changes ink suppliers when they see a good price. Currently using Wickoff(?) or Epple. No difference, misc inks of every flavor any day. Wax free, "made for plastic" (non porus or foil surface), "for uncoated only".
Two things I would stress. Decent dampener rollers and not running slow. The other guy who runs these presses (he primarily runs the 4 color) has to clean dampeners every hour but he won't run past 6m iph. I insist on fewer clean ups and try to run 7m iph minimum.
Advertisement:
Sherry H
Member
Thank you printer Dan. So I had a couple of issues with my oscillators being off-kilter my rod in number one ink form roller with loose and as for the dampening rollers my boss has had this machine about 2 years and he replaced all of them then. However the operator before me really didn't understand what he was doing. So I had to come in and clean the entire machine and try to reset everything from the plate cylinder to the stripes. I even had to clean the water tank which was caked and molded it was awful. So my goal is to get this machine back to par. My boss does not like to run fast two two paper crashes. But I will push the limit and see how it goes. Thanks!
Biggs
Senior Member
Also, if the have the tool to do so, quickly check your fountain solution Ph and conductivity.
Also what kind of water are you using if you mix your own solution.
And of course, when was it last changed?
Might as well start in a place that doesn't cost a ridiculous amount of money, IE new rollers.
Also what kind of water are you using if you mix your own solution.
And of course, when was it last changed?
Might as well start in a place that doesn't cost a ridiculous amount of money, IE new rollers.
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. The Color Printing Forum does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making any potentially dangerous or financial decision, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.
